Greg, Ted, Welcome back to the Lake.

Watertiger, Welcome back, thank you for Hosting today’s Book Salon.

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I’ve got my retriever under my feet. He’s not exactly a Fire Dog. More like a Snoozing Dog. That OK?

Welcome, both of you!

You know, when Anne Romney talked about living in the basement apartment with Mitt and using an ironing board for a desk, all I could think was, “So, where’d you put the horse?” In the car
elevator, I suppose.

And yes, the retriever counts, Greg.

Hi there, thanks for inviting me back.

watertiger – so lovely to see you here again.

Mr Rall – love love your work.

Mr Palast – What’s the first step toward restoration?

Good afternoon Greg, Ted, and WT and welcome back to FDL!

Greg and/or Ted, I have not had a chance to read your book but do have a question. How do you respond to those folks who state that voting is a waste of time given all the voter suppression efforts? Is it the suppressors just trying to make sure they “cover all the bases?”

LOL! I guess they’re getting some flak for her tall tales – she backpedaled on that story this morning on the bobblehead shows.

According to my book, there’s 9 ways to steal this election. All without Vaseline. There is no mercy.

I’m actually quite happy that God is a Republican.

Okay, let’s get serious for a moment: Greg, first off, I want to thank you for getting a “Cantinflas” reference in a book about voting theft. Not everyone can pull that off.

You show that in 2008, 2,706,275 ballots were cast, but weren’t counted. That’s like telling the population of Chicago that their votes didn’t count. How much greater do you think the theft will be this time around?

Thanks thanks thanks Eliott!

Greg Proops sent me a text that Rachel Maddow says that Obama’s balls smell like raspberries. That’s the kind of comment that brings down the discourse of political commentary and makes me laugh until the milk comes out my news. How about you?

I wonder how many votes were stopped from being cast. Not just through voter ID bullcrap but by not enough machines in Democratic areas and police barricades (2000 election in Florida) and poorly written ballots.

TEd just thanked a commenter. That’s pandering, Ted. Rise above it, man!

Billionaires & Ballot Bandits, with Ted’s illustrations, really clarifies just how these corporate kleptocrats are stealing the country out from under us (fracking aside). I’ve asked Ted this, so now I’m asking you, Greg: How do we motivate people to get the hell out and demand their rights back?

It’s tough for cartoonists these days, Greg. We need friends.

Thanks, Greg Palast and Ted Rall. I listened to Mr. Palast recently on the radio and was appalled at the way the Kochs made small change by stealing from low return pirate wells on tribal reservations, as you were telling us. That they declared ‘they just want their fair share’ of stolen profits was incredible, think the pups here would want to hear about that.

He’s running for office, no doubt.

This election will be the ugliest since 1956. With Rove and his “DataTrust” machine (chapter 2) and the Kochs with their “Themis” data mine, the number of voters and ballots challenged and blocked should rise easily from 5.9 million in 2008 to 11+ million. That should make you sick to your stomach and your soul retch.

It occurred to me recently that electing POTUS is too cheap. If it costs $6 billion in 2012, that would be 0.03% of GDP and 0.5% of [reported] corp profits. The RORs on campaign contributions are in the range of several hundred percent to thousands of percent.

I watched Craig Unger interview by Hartman recently, on Unger’s new book about Rove. Rove apparently just asks for billions (or whatever the magnitude of the ‘ask’ is) and promises he’ll get a good return on it.

What’s so brilliant about that? My Q is: what took some one so long to think of doing it? Rove just seems to have a somewhat above average command of the obvious.

Palast or Rall: Comments?

It makes me want to punch out anybody wearing Brooks Brothers, that’s for sure.

If they had put the horse on top of the car…

Yes, Charles Koch, when asked why he was stealing $30 from some Osage Indian family, said on a secret tape recording, “I WANT MY FAIR SHARE….AND THAT’S ALL OF IT.”
=

Yes. Ken Langone, the billionaire behind the Florida purge of Black voters in 2000, said he looked at giving millions to Romney as as an “investment” not a donation. At least he’s upfront, the little shit.

Also, Mary, according to the book, 320K properly registered voters were turned away from the polls, because their IDs didn’t meet the requirements of arbitrary poll workers.

Indeed, it always amazes me how cheap our politicians are. They’re not call girls, they’re crack hos.

So we can expect the campaign donations to increase by orders of magnitude until the ROR=cost of capital?

Votes lost through poorly written ballots is called “Spoilage.” One of the nine ways they steal the vote.” Give me a moment so I can look in the book. Here it is on page 17> 1,451,116 ballots “spoiled” in 2008.
But here’s the trick. the chance of ballot getting “spoiled” is 900% higher if you’re Black than if you’re white. Different machines, different ballots in those poor precincts. God bless America.

These days, we hear a lot (at least those of us in Left Blogistan hear) about Republican-controlled states pretty much saying you can’t vote unless you drive up to the polling place in your chauffered Rolls-Royce.

But I haven’t heard much lately about the electronic, easy-to-manipulate voting machines made by Diebold (or whatever Diebold is calling itself these days) and a few other companies connected to the Republican Party, with their oh-so-secret proprietary software.

Bev Harris in Washington, David Dill at Stanford, some guy at Johns Hopkins whose name escapes me at the moment and (from a media point of view) Brad Friedman have done good work on this issue. Do you deal with this in your book? How much of a threat do we face in this election from voting machines which can be made, if you don’t mind the turn of phrase, to whistle Dixie?

Greg, Ted, how do we convince people to register to vote? I mean, if their registration is going to be challenged, or completely disregarded…(I ask this for my mother, who, at 81, still sets up her card table outside the library and hounds people to sign up)

0.1%ers have bought every institution in the U.S.: Universities (Harvard’s endowment is only $25 billion [heh, down from $35 billion in 2007, thanks Larry Summers, heh heh]), every think tank, both political parties, green orgs, human rights orgs, etc.

Greetings to Mr. Rall from Sylmar, CA. I still get a real kick out of the image of Generalissim El Busho. For that, you go to heaven.
Mr. Palast – always good to see you at the Lake. Kinda funny today, aren’t ya?
Thanks to you both for this book. I’m looking forward to reading it.

Yes, this election will officially involve spending about $4 billion according to my partner Bobby Kennedy.
But I think it’s going higher because Citizens United allows foreign money into US campaigns for the first time (see chapter in Billionaires & Ballot Bandits, “Manchurian Candidates.”)
The $10 million supposedly from Sheldon Adelson is, Sen McCain pointed out, money indirectly from the Chinese Politiburo. They like Romney.

“They like Romney” and his “Made in China” campaign buttons.

so what’s new? the rich buy what they can’t screw. Nothing new under the sun. The 1% own Amnesty International and the Environmental Defense Council. So what? Do you just give us and play with yourself while looking up women’s skirts at the Museum of Modern Art? (Vito Aconci did that as a performance piece. Loved it.)

Well then how can they complain if we send a few drones their way?

Watertiger, if people want to vote, they shouldn’t let voter suppression stop them. Greg offers many specific suggestions about how to make sure their vote counts. On the broader side, just because a fight is a challenge isn’t a reason to throw up your hands and walk away.

One of my favorite illustrrations in Billionaires & Ballot Bandits is the Republican Party Flag pins with the “made in China” label on it.

Chinese Politiburo

Holy Crap, that is scary and odd and totally believable.

Thanks, Demi. That was kind of an accidental thing that worked out well.

In Washington State we’ve gone to vote by mail exclusively and it makes me nervous. Under the old system I was relatively certain the ballots got to the counting machine.

Hey, Demi, I grew up near Sylmar. Sun Valley=Pacoima, the ass end of LA. Fooled them: I got out alive.

Greg, what do you know about Chuck Hagel?

I wish someone would write the story of Hagel, lobbyist, election machine CEO, won elections by landslide on machines supplied by his company, and in staunchly democratic districts.

Hagel ended up at odds with ‘W’ and didn’t seek re-election.

I get the feeling he got religion. or got disgusted with the system he helped put in place.

If only he would talk.

Have you got any insight into his interesting career?

Amen! I especially like the “Arrive with Five” idea. There’s power in numbers.

I’m predicting a Romney win. My metric is campaign contributions. He’s outdistancing Obama by increasing amounts each month.

I used $6 billion in my back-o-envelop calc bc it’s higher than others I’ve seen, to show that even that amount is puny.

Wonder what the figures are for other countries.

Oh, silly me. In other countries, Goldman Sucks just gets its alum appointed head of state or in charge of ECB. That doesn’t cost much at all.

So Obama is campaigning in front of the whole world? Someone should tell him. It’s the only decent thing to do.

Yes, mail-in voting sucks big time. VERY important, then, to go to http://www.BallotBandits.org and get “the 7 WAYS TO BEAT THE BALLOT BANDITS.”
check out #2: re-register. Make sure your name is correct and sign your ballot EXACTLY as you registered. Don’t fuck this up.

I want NY’s old clunky voting machines with the metal toggle thingies back.

It would be nice of victims of cholera in Africa could fund obama. Instead, it’s the Vulture who took the cholera medicine money, Paul Singer, who’s the most important donor the the Republican Party.

I’m straight, so I look for men who forgot to zip.

My point is that it’s gotten a lot worse and quickly and the purported lefties are still in the kumbaya singing phase.

One cannot counter the opposition until you understand it thoroughly.

I know.

* Clears throat and repeats question asked at 32 *

These days, we hear a lot (at least those of us in Left Blogistan hear) about Republican-controlled states pretty much saying you can’t vote unless you drive up to the polling place in your chauffered Rolls-Royce.

But I haven’t heard much lately about the electronic, easy-to-manipulate voting machines made by Diebold (or whatever Diebold is calling itself these days) and a few other companies connected to the Republican Party, with their oh-so-secret proprietary software.

Bev Harris in Washington, David Dill at Stanford, some guy at Johns Hopkins whose name escapes me at the moment and (from a media point of view) Brad Friedman have done good work on this issue. Do you deal with this in your book? How much of a threat do we face in this election from voting machines which can be made, if you don’t mind the turn of phrase, to whistle Dixie?

why spend so much money, when there isn’t a “dime’s worth of difference” between the two parties?

From your lips to Obama’s ears.

I would encourage everyone to check out http://www.BallotBandits.org. Vital, vital information there.

Greg, you should address this. From what I recall you saying, the Democrats are the party of old money, big banks, etc., and the GOP is the party of the barbarians at the gates, the hedge funds, etc. There’s a lot at stake, but it’s not about us. It’s like watching two monsters in one of those old Japanese movies.

Don’t give me that shit, mafr.
There’s a HUGE difference. If you read Billionaires & Ballot Bandits, you’ll find that Obama is backed by Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan and Citibank while Romney is backed by Ice Man Simmons, Paul The Vulture Singer and John The Snake Paulson. You need to know the difference because as I say at the end, “Every four years, we get to choice our nightmare.” Learn which ghoul is chewing which corpse. There really is a difference.

Good question there. Indeed the parties are realtively close so why do the Kochs spend so much money on electing their guy?

Obama doesn’t have any opposition.

He just has diff supporters than Romney.

Mr. Palast, American elections are now like wars. Do you think that the publicity surrounding the billionaire’s funding of Romney is a feint? The real action nowadays seems to be in Congress. Could this be a way of diverting Democratic money into a race that’s already won, at the expense of Democratic seats (especially the Senate)? The Republicans have enough money to attack on several fronts. Now that Obama has effectively castrated the unions, the Democrats can defend only on the Presidential front.

LOL. Still don’t know why the fuck bother/

Greg -
I heard you speak a number of years ago, after Best Democracy, I think, and you said that you investigate and then draw the dots, but that people should think and make the connections.
It sounds like you have connected the dots for us on this issue. Thank you.

I’ve had the suspicion lately, that the parties must have to ask permission from the MOTU before they use their voting machines to steal elections.

You know;

“Mitt, this ain’t your night. We’re going for the price on Obama.”

Yes, anyone who doesn’t go to http://www.BallotBandits.org will never get laid. I made that up,though I( suspect it’s true. Why? Because you can get “7 Ways to Beat the Ballot Bandits” gratis and real info. And order the book. By the way, I’m making one dime on this. All proceeds to our not-for-profit fund for investigative reporting. I’m not saying I’m a Man for All Seasons or deserve the Nobel Prize like Al Gore, but I’m trying to save that little light called Democracy because its weaker than Tinkerbell.

Two nonvoters.

1. William Lloyd Garrison, until slavery was abolished.

2. W.E.B DuBois.

“No ‘two evils’ exist. There is but one evil party with two names.”

Demi, Greg is one of the few journalists willing to connect the dots. The rest are too busy lying for their corporate sponsors.

Thank you, Watt4Bob. Greg and Ted, what say you?

This reminds me of a firm I worked with that had a particularly nasty agent in an associated insurance firm they favored, because, in the lead attorney’s words; ‘she’s a bitch, but she’s our bitch.”

Knut: you obviously know too much so we will have to kill you.
Yes, the real game is seizing Congress. The Vulture billionaires are locking that up. the DNC has said it will supply no money to congressional candidates, it all goes to Obama. That’s why Democrats deserve every beating they get. Unfortunately, the blows fall on us, the working class.

Yes, it IS a bitch. I think Ted Rall would have something brilliant to say about this.

The parties collude, mainly to make it impossible for third parties to gain traction. But they really are attacking each other. That part isn’t fake. Whether either of them gives a damn about you and me, well, I think we know the answer.

That’s got to be the reason.

The duopoly is like a restaurant where the only two dishes on offer are pee or poo. And waiters are all rude.

I’d rather eat elsewhere. But there are many–they’ve told me–who still pick pee.

That was easy for them to say. ObamaCare is a piece of shit, but I can get insurance despite having asthma. Yes, it’s cute to say we shouldn’t choose between the lesser of two evils, but when you live in Hell, you still have to pick the mayor.

The choice is yours, but nevertheless, you must make a choice. And then you die.

Do either of you think the American people are finally getting wise to the kleptocracy? And should I invest in pitchfork futures?

I’m just itching for a fight is all. These people really piss me off.

Indeed we do. But to what extent do you think the election results might be skewed by easy-to-manipulate voting machines?

How you cope or handle the stresses of threats from the establishment of writing so much about them. Character assassinations, fear of hacking into your computer,… you name it. and you still keep going

Urine Therapy! (This exists, by the way.)

Actually, I DON’T connect the dots. I unearth the dots and let you connect them. And Noam Chomsky.

How and when the fuck did it get to this or was it always this way and I was just sleeping through it all? Fuck I shoulda got laid, at least.

Simple. The other restaurants are nothing but fronts, you walk in the door and you’re out in the alley.

Speaks for itself: Lesser is still lesser, and that seems like a good thing.

Very good!

Exactly!

Heh. A reader’s gotta be pretty effin’ stupid not to see the picture.

Or a tribalist.

Voting machines can screw you. That’s one of the nine ways they steal elections in our book. I call is “Presdidigitizing” But there can be too much focus on voting machines — takes us away from the bigger Jim Crow machine: purging legal votes. Giving the registration lists an enema. Example: In California, the GOP Sec of State rejected 42% of voter forms for “suspicious” signatures. Like “Mohammed.”

These things take time. But the Tea Party and Occupy movements show there is politics in the streets again, for the first time since the 1970s.

Interesting, like Ted Rall spoke about accidents happening. That Greg had to go across the pond to get his stories out, he ended up in a position less likely to have to sell his soul to write.
Whether it’s an accident or a plan, I like it when things work out.

Can’t live in fear. That’s lame.

was it always thus? did we ever have a democratic republic?

Um, both? Yeah, it’s always been this way. But it’s getting worse.

I spoke to a close friend, right wing in politics but close friend otherwise, he actually considers himself center but admits “he gets both sides from fox news”

I swear he actually says and believes that

anyway, he asked me how I feel about voter registration, he was sure he was on the right track

I simply asked him;

“if a new voter registration law disenfranchises more voters then it prevents voter fraud, are you still for that law

to which he hawed a lot but I told him;

“no scrambling, if the law disenfranchises more legitimate voters then it prevents voter fraud, is the law good or bad

he actually agreed with me when I put it that way, then I showed him the numbers

Wow. Secretary of State must be the only statewide office the R’s have in California (come back, Debra Bowen!) and they can still use it to tamper with what’s left of our democracy.

Thanks, wish it weren’t true.

Yes, America was stolen while you were watching “Hell’s Kitchen.” As I say in my other book (Vultures’ Picnic which is coming out next week also in Paperback which I need to mention for crass commercial reasons and because my pig publisher Penguino is trying to screw me for writing about the Kochs), doing the right thing might not get you rich but it might get you Ms. Overby. You’ll have to read the book to get the reference. How’s that for trouble?

sorry i asked the same question…deluded i guess forever

but what if you went to every restaurant and there was the same two choices?

this is what they did with limpburger, they put him on every station they could in every market so there was no choice but listening to his rubbish, and then they claimed he had a national following

Take Greg’s advice – check out http://www.BallotBandits.org. You might get laid!

/insert usual disclaimer here

your tops

You listened? most of those of us here did not.

As to your friend in the Fox hole… only SIX voters a year have been convicted of voting fraud. And to get those six, we have taken the vote away from SIX MILLION. Does he/she really want to have a president elected by the votes blocked at the door or by the votes?
There is a problem with those who don’t get the votes getting the presidency — Iraq.
Apartheid voting systems can kill you.

you too Ted

I bookmarked it. Look later. thanks

Tops? I like that. You single? or just trouble?

Sometimes you don’t have any choice

have any of these sociopaths ever had a redeeming thought or notion…..nah

I’d kind of love to see Karl Rove’s name purged from the voter rolls.

Greg, could you talk a bit about how you had to leave the United States to be able to work as an investigative journalist?

both,one of my favorite Cole Porter songs…you have so much courage!

I had to listen so I could explain to people who quoted him

Mr. Palast
Are you keeping an eye on Chevron and Ecuadorean law suit and how Chevron is involved in entrapment of the judge and attorney in questions, Steven Dongziger

I’d burn them all down and eat bugs. But I’m spiteful like that.

incomparable Ella

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS5DESLfhu4

I mean, that no one (except maybe David Iglesias) challenges the wholesale disenfranchisement of minorities – the chapter about what these fuckers did to the predominantly Democratic Native American population in New Mexico…splutter!

did we ever have a democratic republic?
No, but it doesn’t matter. Jefferson lost the presidential vote but slave owners were allowed to cast votes for their slaves and have it could 3/5 of a white vote. So Jefferson became president. We do our best. And that can often be beastly. But it’s amazing how history gives us those few moments of joy and victory, from the civil rights movement to Lula’s election in Brazil when you say, “well, it’s not so bad.”

OK so it’s f’d up. What do we do? Would OWS help? (if we could find it.)

So, if things are as bleak as you say they are (and i tend to agree with your assessment), then what of the future?

There was an interesting article today in what used to be called the paper of record, America Losing sight of the Future. Are we becoming nothing more than a third world republic? Have the animosities of the present overwhelmed any potential vision of a future?

I’d appreciate your feedback on this cynical malaise, you both are imaginative guys, and it does seem our culture is at (perpetual) war…

It has already. But Occupy needs to evolve into something more aggressive.

we are destroying the planet anyway,before we can even improve,sad that

Hi Ted…Question: More aggressive. Such as ?

Yeah I remember. Not much traction so far.

Are we becoming nothing more than a third world republic?

As a proud American citizen, I resent that question. We’re becoming a Third World Republic with a bloated military! That’s a lot different (sort of).

Yes, I’m keeping track of Chevron — and they’re keeping track of me. Chevron just filed a complaint against me at BBC TV for exposing their destroying evidence in the suit by Cofan Indians for their ill pollution. Donziger, the Indian’s lawyer, is a giant. PBS and Pro Publica, however, says that Chevron is a wonderful corporation that would have never let the Deepwater Horizon happen. They know that because Chevron is the Number One corporate sponsor of PBS.
So if you want to stop this sh*t, get a copy of Vulture’s Picnic, which has a section on Donziger and Ecuador, and send it around. That’s your dharmic responsibility and don’t run from it.

it would be met with rabid opposition

I’m guessing you’re saying not more physically aggressive, but more strategic, maybe? Say more.

With colonels in mirrored sunglasses!

need to get an electric car

cant buy Chevron
Royal Dutch Shell
or
BEE Pee

sounds like a black and white jungle movie coup is brewing?

The billionairians at the gate are engaged in both nonstop skirmishes plus efforts to breach and also the longer term siege. They’ve got the resources to outlast us and they’ve convinced a sizable number of inhabitants that the real enemy is within (those damned DFHs and womens and such that keep stabbing society in the back).

Of those who do see where the real threat lies, a majority seem to think that supporting the internal leader who wants to let them in a few at a time is the only choice, given that the alternative wants to throw open the gates and declare game over, man.

Is there a difference between the two? Sure, sort of. But let’s not forget that in 2008, the largest number of eligible voters were under Abstain/Gave Up (37%). Other drew at most 1% (with Team O and M drawing roughly 33% and 29% respectively). It seems to me the place to pull voters from to effect any kind of change is that first group, but I’ll be damned if I have any solution to doing so.

Yes, we’re losing sight. Neil Armstrong died for our sings. Instead of colonizing the moon, the moon colonized us: we’re a moonscape of dusty rocks. We sit in our capsules, our home entertainment theaters and “work stations” looking at images supplied by robot eyeballs and never leave without the air supply of anti-depressants and a mobile phone to stay in communication with other desperate Earthlings. America is over. One small step for a man and one giant leap to oblivion. And then we vote.

Think I’ll pour some acid on this. I believe that physically aggressive is going to be required at some point unless you want to spend time hiding under your bed.

Thank you! Where’s my chicken in a pot?

Direct confrontation. Massive protests. Incessant disruption.

Them are fightin’ words. Put up your dukes, bud. :)

About my having to leave the USA to report the news.
I’m the mainstream: top of the nightly news BBC TV and front page of the Guardian.
In the US I’m some type of weird internet ghost dismissed by the Paper of Wreckers and MSDNC.
So I have you, my friends. I can only speak to my home country through the crack in the electronic Berlin Wall supplied by FDL.com and other portals of where the truth worms through and squeaks to the attentive.

In 2000, the theft was mainly due to the 60k(?) Fla. dems of color that were caged/purged by Jeb Bush and which only Greg Palast reported on before the election. In 2004, the election machines were routed to a Chatanooga, TN, basement where BushCo manipulated the total by millions to steal another. Right after a key witness (name escapes me now) came to DC to start testifying, his small plane crashed before landing back in Ohio. In 2008, I thought their theft plans were simply overwhelmed by the huge turnout for Obama. But everyone went to sleep re: electronic voting/tabulating simply because a third election in a row wasn’t stolen.

As if the $$$ and multi-state efforts at restrictive voter ID by the GOP aren’t enough this year, it seems not a thing has been done about the electronic voting machines and scanning tabulators. Are all those equipment/software companies still headed by Republican owners? And more importantly, what are some of the new tricks in their arsenals this year that we may not be aware of?

dont you worry about distributing it. I wish some folk on FDL write about the Chevron’s tactics. It would be a great service to the FDL members. There is counter suit by Stenven. Where there is lot of juicy stuff about the telephone tape recording where the entrapment guys tells his friend that he he got “stuff” on Cheveron,blah blah. If interested I would be honored to pass to you. interesting crap

So…?

Don’t want to get off-topic. You can check out my Anti-American Manifesto and Book of Obama for more details about that stuff.

Would that we could organize general strikes. I may have asked you this before, but do you think the country is physically too large something like this?

sounds like the French underground in WW2…me likey,its a noble cause

No, I don’t. But you need a really big organization to make it happen.

No. No physical force. I despise violent “revolutionaries” like that poseur Che Guevarra. Another rich dick who thought working class people should die for his beliefs. No violence. Once we let out the dogs of war the rabies in our DNA becomes President. I’m not a pacifist, I’m just a scared father.

Maybe clapping louder? /runs out of the room

watertiger! greg! ted! i gotta say i forking loved this book. i kept having to put it down and walk off my anger and then scurry back to read more.

thank you.

Well, that makes me feel at least somewhat useful (did buy “Best Democracy,” by the way).

Inasmuch as UK is a colony of ours, why are you so big there? Is it that Brit overlords can say “Look at all the problems Greg Palast finds in U.S.! That shows how much better you have it here!” ?

you are correct…im not brave anymore, i rescue animals,and must stay alive as long as possible,but i was very brave once

What are the new tricks? There are Nine. That’s why Billionaires & Ballot Bandits is subtitiled How to Steal an Election in 9 Easy Steps. If this sounds like a commercial well, damn, I wrote the book and Ted penned it, so we can learn it. But I appreciate that you’ve got your eyes open — versus most of the sleepwalkers in the USA.

you need a really big organization to make it happen

I was going to say the Democratic Party, but then I got struck by a reality meteor.

Understood, and thank you. You are now on a post-it note on my desk and you’re going to heaven twice.

I know. I’d be laughing one moment, and screaming, “WTF?!” the next. My downstairs neighbor thinks I’m insane.

And to Greg as well. We already know where this eventually leads and if anyone is not comfortable with this, then why bother.

Suzanne, you shouldn’t get angry reading Billionaires & Ballots. It’s a COMIC book. Laugh–at the demolition of our democracy and the billionaire pirates’ cove we call Free Enterprise. Coming back from the Congo and cholera clinics where Romeny’s top billionaire had stolen the medicine, I thought, DAMN, if I don’t laugh, I’ll cry until I’m dry.

Certainly there’s no place for violence at the beginning of the struggle. Much later, it is necessary to close the deal (c.f. Egypt). Much, much later.

oh Jeeeeebus on a missle!never heard that one

Funny you should bring up the Kent State shootings. (And don’t forget the Black students gunned down at Jackson State just a few days later.) Just this morning, Graham Nash asked if he could help get the word out about Billionaires & Ballot Bandits. Because he knows, it’s Tin Soldiers and Nixon Comin’.

Just want to through some reality in here. This is no game and (to the other side at least) it’s deadly serious.

I must say, I was surprised to read that Rick Santorum stood up for the rights of ex-cons to vote.

True, the book is damn funny. Greg points out so many absurdities in such a funny writing style that you have to laugh.

Once we let out the dogs of war the rabies in our DNA becomes President.

Exactly, violent revolution would really bring the idjits to the fore.

We don’t need more stupid, more violent leaders.

What I’ve found sort of surprising is that with some notable exceptions (e.g., Cheney the Daywalker), the forces of anti-democracy seem still to want to maintain the appearance of representative government. Sure, they are becoming more and more brazen in their theft of elections (and attempted theft, like the effort smacked down in Ohio last week), but most of them still seem to value having the banana republic look official on paper.

I don’t know whether that is because it is easier to keep real uprisings from starting that way or there is some part of them that hasn’t quite given in to the Dark Side, or what, but it seems to me any place they feel vulnerable is a place worth exploiting. Which I guess is a part of that being discussed. Maybe the efforts to convince people to choose Coke over Royal Crown cola would be more effective fighting tooth and nail with every elected official over the voting access and security issues.

same here! tis a great mix of snark and totally piss ya off – i forking loved it. tis the kind of book that i can read and re-read over and over again and continue find more to laugh and cuss about.

if anyone is still sitting on the fence about buying this book, get down and get this book!

I’m allowed on BBC in the UK because the ruling class there is so strong they couldn’t care less what I do. They’re amused, really. In the US, viewers actually get ANGRY when they see they’ve been fooled again. Remember, in World War I, the British officers shot their own men; in Vietnam, Americans shot their own officers.

Can I rephrase the Q to: what is the newest or most curious method we may be unaware of? That way, I’ll still have to buy the book to get the other eight, haha.

And if my eyes are open, a large chunk of that is your last 3 books and being lucky enough to also have heard you speak 3x in the DC area over the last 6 years, most recently in Silver Spring for Vultures book tour.

Thanks Greg. Just want to make sure everyone here was aware that they know they can do this and get away with it scott free. Because they already have twice.

As as a Vietnam vet said at a rally I was at, If you aren’t prepared for that eventuality, you are wasting your time.

Oh, man. You’re taking me back to the semester after high school.
So many issues we fought for, including women’s rights, and look what we’re facing. It’s enough to make me…wait, I’m trying to keep my blood pressure down. I’ll just pout and stamp my foot. Hard.

Like I said: Cantinflas. I was hooked with the Cantinflas reference.

There’s a case to be made for voting for Nixon’s head over the two guys running to his right.

Pretending democracy still exists probably does help to prevent the rabble from rousing. But woe to those who continue to disenfranchise whole swathes of populations. It can’t end well.

The latest problem: digitizing all nine methods of vote theft. Rove has a new data mining system called “DataTrust” under contract to the RNC. The Kochs have created a competitor data mining op called, “Themis.” Paul The Vulture Singer is getting them to work together. This will increase the challenges to registrations and ballots by millions. Meanwhile, while these guys are at the 189th generation of computations vote-jacking, the Dems are playing with their floppy disks.
Not that I trust the Dems to protect your vote. Look out for Colorado–and Florida which is already highjacked.

According to Chomsky, we in delusion because we think we have a democracy

Not all the rabid foxes came from violent revolution. Quite a few came peacefully and were voted into power.

Just saying.

Hitler, for example.

Yep…good example.

As I noted earlier, the largest bloc of eligible voters in 2008 were the self-disenfranchised (even if you assume some of those tried to vote and were somehow discounted). I guess we’ll find out soon whether one of the (intended?) effects of Obama’s rick-rolling of hope and change voters, especially young ones, was to shift more of them into the “What’s The Point” party.

Yes, they have gotten away with stealing it twice in the last twelve years. And Nixon took it from Humphrey through vote spoilage. And Jefferson took it from Adams. So that’s why, under, “7 Ways to Beat the Ballot Bandits” at BallotBandits.org, #7 is “Make the Democracy Demand.” It’s the DAY AFTER that counts- to demand the count. Al Gore grabbed his ankles, so did Kerry. Lots of reasons for that. Kerry said my analysis that he’d won in Ohio was correct but did not challenge the Ohio/New Mexico/Iowa counts. (Gore simply hates me.) In Serbia, Peru and elsewhere, the demand to count the votes when they announce the steal has made a difference.

I want to understand how this mess works so that I can help in the healing.
But, yes, it is so depressing and mind numbing. I’m thankful for opportunities to serve others and I’m thankful for FDL for providing a forum for all of the many writers here, to share the OWS, to look at issues that are the most important, and for having guests like Palast and Rall.
We will connect the dots. Or, we will pop trying.

Jaw-dropping, sinister and brazen. Thanks for the divulge; -it sounds like a 10th for the next edition!

Yo, Demi, you DID win many rights for women. the idea that movements are just a bunch of wasted shouts and slogans is bullshit. We do win some: 99% is bigger than 1% — and we ourselves forget that. I know that sounds really cornie, but I have to tell my daughter there’s more to do in this life than shop.

Once in office, incumbents of every stripe seem to realize that it’s to their advantage to do absolutely nothing about these voter suppression efforts, because they’re still far more likely to retain office with a smaller voting pool. I don’t know how to get them to act on it.

I think demanding real democracy can be very powerful, because it demands something that even the corrupt system’s leaders have to pretend to respect, one person one vote, and thus exposes the nature of our so-called leaders.

Also it could conceivably lead to third parties having a real chance to emerge, transforming the US into more of a parliamentary democracy, and perhaps abolishing the electoral college, etc.

But, but….. Gore’s election was his to lose, and he seemed to do it with verve. Kerry just stood by and got pummeled. What was THAT about? Was the fix so in that neither of them had any reason to stand the fuck up?

Yes, thanks…not too many liberal blogs have been as open. DailyKos, for example, censors my work.

The overthrow was done non-violently, by taking over the local courthouse and minor boards/offices in my area, Grayson Co, TX. Since then an intelligent liberal has run against Big Oil tool Ralph Hall twice, and we who have good intent worked for the liberal for House. Both times, he lost with the same percentage of the vote in every polling place. He has stopped wasting our time and money and his. I know we’re peculiarly vulnerable and the office particularly important. But we need to learn by those tactics, not the stealing, but the dominance in small office holding.

Kerry’s concession was so fast it made Usain Bolt blush. While he never answered the question, to whom do you think he was indebted that made him give it up to Bush so quickly?

It would have taken some serious stones for Gore to challenge the election results in a principled, i.e. long-term way. Can you imagine what he was threatened with?

By the way, we have a poster: “7 Ways to Beat the Ballot Bandits” that you can get through BallotBandits.org. Or just copy and print it yourself and get it around. Will it make a difference. I have to pretend it does or I’ll go mad.

But how does that square with our need to look forward, always forward, and the fact that the Village Punditry just can’t stand protracted fights?

Though I would guess that dumping the electoral college would have huge majority public support. Then again, so did a public healthcare option.

Will they count the votes for the 3rd Party Candidates? Or do they give those to the Republicans?

I think these establishment pols are terrified of winding up like John Edwards–marginalized, ridiculed, unable to find decent work as an MSNBC commentator. Believe me, even I’m tempted to sell out and become one of them—and I’m only losing a fraction of what those guys would be risking.

That’s my question: What was he threatened with…. and how is that he’s never talked about it. What was Kucinich threatened with in re Health Insurance Company Security Act? What was Kerry threatened with? Does the “left” need to develop its own shadow CIA….. or is it really over? In which case, why bother?

Dearie: Al Gore’s net worth now exceeds $100 million and he has a Nobel prize. Not bad for going to the mat, eh?

You could be the Dennis Miller of cartoons.

We need to redefine the terms of the struggle, and to make the establishment play on our turf, which is out on the streets of America’s cities.

Is Gore draining capital with Current TV?

And, yay for Gore/s. But, then, tell me again what the point is????

I’ve been frustrated with the system. Period. I even got frustrated with the system volunteering at a Food Bank and Kitchen because of the system. Instead of giving up, I’ve made a point of getting to know several groups of homeless in my neighborhood. So, there’s trust. I bring them food. I do one guys laundry. This is the only way I can help right now.
But, I try to stay current with what’s going on with the all the Big Stuff.

I think they get threatened with the Big Freeze.It’s hard to pay the bills when that happens.

Third party candidates are the lollipop in the drawer you left in your bedroom as a kid and you come back years later and it’s covered with ants. They put those choices on the ballot to pretend you have a choice.

Heh, exactamente.

That was mind-numbing, wasn’t it? 2 elections stolen right in front of us. Kerry even said on Election Tuesday night that he was going to fight, then we all awoke Weds a.m. to him conceding in Boston. Unreal.

And he was sitting on somewhere between $15M-$20M in unspent campaign funds on election day. No doubt to keep those planes full of lawyers he promised ready to go.

Boy, wouldn’t that be swell.

Whatever happened to Dennis Miller? I used to go on his show. I think we’re both off the air — and in America, that’s electronic death.

And so the point of voting, rallying the crowds, etc., etc. is what????

I think the point is, we’ve been in bed sleeping for four decades.

It’s not up Gore or Kerry or Obama to fight for us. It’s up to us to force them to do what we want.

You’re demanding something so reasonable everybody will agree it should be granted. Then the system refuses. Which exposes them for what they are. Which then creates the political space to argue that they suck.

They (Obama admin Homeland Sec) seriously maligned those youngsters in Chicago for protesting. Infiltrated, set them up (gas cans?) and ruined their futures. Labelled as terrorists in the MSM.

YOu do his LAUNDREY??? Damn, I wish I were going to Heaven so I could meet you.

Given the reactions to Occupy by the $aires (as detailed by Jeff Greene in NY Magazine, Fear and Loathing, perhaps in equal measures), and the nonstop corporate media efforts to downplay, mock and ridicule the movement, I think you’re spot on.

A little help with that, please. If not pitchforks, then what? Believe me, Obama does not read my letters or emails! And I’ve backed off because I really do not want to be meeting the Secret Service at my door in the middle of the night.

He should hook up with Victoria Jackson. It’ll be just like the old days at SNL, only this time, Charles Koch signs the paychecks.

I’m guessing he (Gore) was threatened with more than W’s “personal grievous harm” or whatever wording he used in his SC case, lol.

Suckers!

Read my Manifesto…

/:)~

Gore wants money, power, fame. All they had to do was threaten those.

When Ken Salazar was my Senator, I let him know of my displeasure with his signing on to the Gang of 14 that gave us Alito. I explained just what was wrong with what they were doing, and I got a very nice email response from him or someone in his office, telling me very politely that I should go fuck myself.

‘They’ have done far worse than that.

The worst thing they’ve done to us is to steal our hope. See how far they’ve marginalized the envmntl and anti-war grassroots movements? We are as close to irrelevant, in terms of the national holovid, for any time that I can remember.

Dennis Miller went to the Dark Side, hitched his wagon to Dubya Bush and went down with the mixed metaphors.

“And don’t forget to vote for Senator Salazar in November!”

However that once you start taking it to the streets as you say, it will get very, very messy. We already know that from NYC and Calif. and other places. The PTB do not play nice like they do in France or Spain or Greece.

I was surprised that the kids in Chicago were surprised. Didn’t they read about ’68? Our photographer Zach was there. I was happy to see, though, that kids were in the streets. In NYC, he got our camera smashed by the pigs. Cost $600. Should have docked his pay. Zach got lumps on his skull big as golfballs. It’s an instant Ph.d in political science.

Well, at least they were polite!

That’s a given.

So?

You gotta buy Zach a nice strong helmet.

“Look out, Haskell, it’s real!”

Greg and Ted — great book.

I laughed up the thread as Watertiger described what her neighbors thought of her. I was reading the book at home, and made some kind of loud and angry outburst (probably starting with “You’ve GOT to be kidding . . .”) and then heard my kid call out “What?” [He's getting to that age where he's probably guilty of something, and wondered what he was going to get in trouble for.] Before I could answer, Mrs Peterr replied “Your father is reading a book about nasty politicians”

Says the Kid: “Oh, that explains it. Is it a big book?”

As we come to the end of this great Book Salon discussion,

Greg, Ted, Thank you for stopping by the Lake and spending the afternoon with us discussing your new book and the Ballot Bandits.

Watertiger, Thank you very much for Hosting this great Book Salon.

Everyone, if you would like more information:

Greg’s website and books (GregPalast.com)

Ted’s website and books (RallBlog)

Watertiger’s website (Dependable Renegade)

Thanks all, Have a great week.

If you would like to contact the FDL Book Salon: FiredoglakeBookSalon@gmail.com

I’m signing off: I have a hot hot hot tip on Romney’s money. Keep an eye on http://www.BallotBandits.org and GregPalast.com. It will go there–and Ted will draw it. Remember: if we keep voting, we might end up with a candidate. g

Well that’s the point I’m trying to make. And I’ll be blunt here. There WILL come a point when the bullets will not be rubber and the canisters will not be tear gas.

I hope I have been as clear as the button hook in the well water.

I’d like to thank Greg and Ted for their excellent adventure (oof) and I really recommend that if you don’t have the shekels for the book, go to the website and read, read, read!

You guys are great. Thanks again!

Awesome, thanks, everyone, especially Greg and Watertiger and Bev! I’m at rall.com if anyone cares. Read political cartoons now, they won’t be around at all in 5 years!

Great hosting, watertiger!

Thanks Bev, WaterTiger (really good job), Ted Rall, and to Greg Palast, you are all fantastic. Inspiring. Fun People. (Double points for Fun.)

Ted and Greg, thanks for your time, good luck with the book.

We CARE! http://www.Rall.com. Go there.

Thanks Greg and Ted. Can’t wait for the book to arrive.

Me too!

Publisher never sent me one lol

thanks for inspiration

DailyKos isn’t a liberal or progressive blog. It’s a corporatist Democratic blog for faux liberals/progressives.

He’s the go-to “comedian” for FOX.

DHS coordinated the militarized police attacks on the Occupy movement nationwide.

Republicans will steal elections as long as Democrats let them–and Democrats seem willing to let them.

Oh, and vice versa.