Welcome Bill Press (BillPressShow) and Host Arthur Goldwag (author, The New Hate)

The Obama Hate Machine: The Lies, Distortions, and Personal Attacks on the President—and Who Is Behind Them

February 26 is the birth date of Wallace D. Fard, the founder of the Nation of Islam. Every year since 1981, when he designated it Saviours’ Day, Minister Louis Farrakhan has commemorated the occasion with a speech. For much of this year’s four-hour plus stemwinder, he alternatively praised and derided Barack Obama, who, for all his fatal naïveté, he said, is a fundamentally “good and beautiful man”—and a martyr in the making, who will almost certainly share the fate of another historic president from Illinois.

“Never,” Farrakhan said, “has a sitting president been spoken of in the manner that President Obama and his family have had to endure. Not just by the birthers and right-wing zealots, but those in high places. People with great influence have spoken against him in a manner that has never been accorded to even the worst of America’s white presidents.”

The litany of indignities he described—PhotoShopped pictures of Obama’s face superimposed onto an ape’s; accusations that he is an “angry” black man; a “humorous” e mail from the GOP Speaker of the Kansas state legislature that quoted Psalm 109’s prayer for the death of a leader (“let his days be few….may his children be fatherless and his wife a widow”) and jested, “At last — I can honestly voice a Biblical prayer for our president! Look it up — it is word for word! Let us all bow our heads and pray. Brothers and Sisters, can I get an AMEN? AMEN!!!!!!”—went on for a full half hour. As he wound down, he assumed a tone of sweet reasonableness.”To show you that Farrakhan is not teaching hate,” he said, “this is a book that just came out a few days ago. It’s called The Obama Hate Machine: The Lies, Distortions, and Personal Attacks on the President and Who’s Behind Them. So don’t look at me like I’m doing something wrong. Two books came out,” he added, holding up another volume. “The New Hate, by Arthur Goldwag.”

I disagree with Farrakhan about most things, but when it comes to this president, I’m afraid he got it mostly right—about both his infuriating willingness to split the difference with people who have no intention of compromising with him and the unprecedented disrespect—the lies, racism, and sheer nastiness he has had to endure.

It seems only fitting that I have been asked to introduce Bill Press and host this salon on his book The Obama Hate Machine, an indispensable expose of the “largely personal, political, and mean-spirited” assault on America’s first black president. The host of the nationally syndicated radio program The Bill Press Show, a syndicated columnist for Tribune Media Services, and an accredited member of the White House Press corps, Press has seen the hate machine close up and personal.

Obama’s policies aren’t just bad for America, his enemies declare—he is a Manchurian candidate, a foreign-born “plant” who is actively seeking to destroy the Republic. He isn’t just black; he hates white people. He is a Marxist/Fascist/Wahhabist/Terrorist/Muslim. He is a thug, an adulterer, an anti-imperialist. He is a false Messiah, a Pied Piper whose Hitler-like eloquence is leading the country to perdition—but at the same time, he is so tongue-tied and ignorant that he can’t say a word without the benefit of a teleprompter. He is a Harvard elitist who could have never matriculated at such a good school if it wasn’t for affirmative action. Weatherman Bill Ayers ghostwrote his books; ACORN ghostwrote his playbook.

If Obama is perhaps the most vilified president in history (by year three of his presidency, 67 books had been published that demonized him), the campaign against him is anything but spontaneous and grass roots, Press reveals. “The Koch Brothers and other corporate bigwigs wrote the checks. Republican politicians and Tea Party activists voiced the attacks. And cable television and newspapers provided a ready national platform. Together, they formed a vicious, well-funded, and amoral attack campaign virtually unprecedented in our history: an Obama Hate machine.”

As a writer with an interest in the historical roots of contemporary hatreds, I found the chapter “Presidents Under Fire,” which relates some of the extraordinary abuse that was hurled at Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Lincoln, and Roosevelt, especially intriguing and look forward to hearing some of Press’s thoughts on why American voters are seemingly so susceptible to this kind of manipulation. But my first question is a topical one.

For all its successes in suppressing and frustrating whatever progressive agenda this “classic, genuine, albeit frustrating middle-of-the-roader” (Press’s own words) president might have enacted, Obama’s health care plan at least appears to have survived. Perhaps Obama will survive too, and win reelection next year. In that case, what do you suppose the Hate Machine will do to prevent him from fulfilling any more of his mandate? Will they find grounds to impeach him, as they did Clinton?

 

[As a courtesy to our guests, please keep comments to the book and be respectful of dissenting opinions. Please take other conversations to a previous thread. - bev]

324 Responses to “FDL Book Salon Welcomes Bill Press, The Obama Hate Machine: The Lies, Distortions, and Personal Attacks on the President—and Who Is Behind Them”

BevW July 7th, 2012 at 1:54 pm

Bill, Welcome to the Lake.

Arthur, Welcome back to the Lake, thank you for Hosting today’s Book Salon.

For our new readers/commenters:

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Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 1:57 pm

Hi Bev, Hi Bill, and hi everybody out there who’s reading. I’m excited about this Book Salon and looking forward to hearing everyone’s comments and Bill’s answers.

BevW July 7th, 2012 at 1:58 pm

Please keep questions and comments focused on the discussion with our guests and be respectful of dissenting opinions.  Please take other conversations to a previous thread. – bev

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 2:00 pm
In response to BevW @ 1

Hello, everybody. Excited to join you for today’s Book Salon. It’s 105 in D.C., but we have air cranked up!

cmaukonen July 7th, 2012 at 2:01 pm
In response to BevW @ 3

Oh absolutely will. Maybe just read the comments. Could be quite entertaining.

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 2:02 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 4

Hi Bill. So what do you see happening with the right in a second Obama administration? Will they try to cooperate or will they ramp up the resistance even more?

BeachPopulist July 7th, 2012 at 2:02 pm

Bill –

The promotional blurb for this salon, which I assume came either from your press kit or perhaps Mr. Goldwag describes your ““I Hate Obama Book Club” list, calling out the scores of anti-Obama tomes—and even some from the Left—that have helped drag politics even deeper into the mud”.

Can you give some examples of anti-Obama tomes from the left and what lies they told about him?

dakine01 July 7th, 2012 at 2:03 pm

Good afternoon Bill and welcome to FDL. Arthur, welcome back and good afternoon.

Bill, I have not read your book so forgive me if it is addressed in there but would you care to speculate on how/why the theme of Obama = Socialist has been allowed to gain traction, especially given all the times he has wound up giving the Republicans their 95% victories?

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 2:04 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 6

I don’t see any change from the right-wingers unless Boehner, Cantor, and McConnell all lose their jobs. They’re owned by the Tea Party. They’ve decided their only way forward is to oppose everything Obama’s for, even if it’s stuff they once supported themselves, like the individual mandate.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
In response to BeachPopulist @ 7

I list about 10 books critical of Obama from the left. They’re really not so much HATE Obama books as books critical of his lack of leadership on some critical issus: like gay rights, or single-payer – and his continuation of many Bush policies on terrorism.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 2:08 pm

I believe most people who use that pejorative Socialist don’t really know what it means. I WISH Obama were more of a Socialist. And, of course, the media just repeat the charge without showing how ridiculous it is. If Obama’s a Socialist, I’m an astronaut.

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 2:09 pm
In response to dakine01 @ 8

Bill may be typing a reply to this right now, but one book he mentions is Timothy Carney’s Obamanomics, a book I haven’t read myself, that bashes Obama for his corporatism. Fascinatingly enough, the book is published by Regnery–which proves that they’ll promote anything anti-Obama, regardless of its ideology. As for the second part of your question, it’s possible to demonize a president without technically libeling them–the difference between honest criticism and “bashing” often lies in tone.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

Just want to make sure everybody knows that my daily radio show is now broadcast live on Current TV. Check Current.com to find out how to find Current on cable provider you have at home: Verizon, Comcast, Direct TV, or whatever. Show airs M-F, 6-9 a.m. EST. Check it out!

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 2:10 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 11

Leaving aside the question of whether the left demonizes Obama, do they demonize the right? Are the Koch brothers playing a similar role in the left wing view that Soros does in the right’s nightmares?

spocko July 7th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

Hi Bill: I’m looking forward to reading the book.

We know that there is money to be made in generating rumors and scandals against the President.

Where is there money to be made to combat it?

Why are we expected to do this work for free? Shouldn’t some of the millions that Obama is raising to advertise be spend to fund people to combat it?

BeachPopulist July 7th, 2012 at 2:11 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 10

So what about his continuation, indeed expansion, of Bush assaults on civil liberties under the guise of anti-terrorism? How do you defend Obama from critics of his “assassination without due process” and NDAA “indefinite detention without charge or trial” policies. Aren’t these the kind of policies that would have elicited screams of protest from you and other Dem party traditionalists had they been undertaken by Bush, or perhaps Romney?

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 2:12 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 11

The right wing hate machine relies on people not knowing what the pejoratives they throw out mean. Consider what they’ve done to the word “progressive”! They say it’s a synonym for Communist and TR and Wilson are our first Communist presidents.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 2:13 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 12

Agree with Arthur’s comment. I think criticism of Obama’s corporatism is well-founded. He’s way less in bed with Wall Street than Romney, but – he named Geither and Summers to his Cabinet,, kicked Christina Romer back to Calfiornia – and didn’t crack down near enough on Wall Street after the collapse of 2008. And he’s buddy-buddy with Jamie Dimon. That’s legitimate criticism over policy and priorities, not ugly hate talk, imho.

Ready July 7th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

My natural (and life long) reaction is defend “our side” from the hate and the craziness of the Republicans and the propaganda of the Right Wing media.

But here I am 3 years later after Obama took office and not only can’t defend him, but I agree with them, for very different reasons of course then their rantings.

Not because Obama is a Socialist, but because he is a Corporatist.

Not because Obama is a weak on defense, but because he is a war monger.

Not because Obama hates business, but because he is pro business at the expense of the worker.

On and on.

It’s very confusing and exhausting.

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 2:15 pm
In response to spocko @ 15

I’ve often wondered about that myself! But you can’t be a member of the independent media and on a president’s payroll at the same time, as Sydney Blumenthal, for one, had brought home to him back in the Clinton years.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 2:16 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 14

There is no way liberals demonize the right, compared to their treatment of Obama. First of all,, the money the Koch Brothers pump into politics is about 100 x’s what Soros spends. Second, Soros is using his money to help legalize pot or fund grassroots organizing – not demonizing anybody. For the most part, Soros is a FOX invention!

BeachPopulist July 7th, 2012 at 2:17 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 17

What about what Obama and the corporatist Dems have done to the word “progressive”? Thanks to Obama, a rightwing health insurance bill originally spawned by the Heritage Foundation and espoused by Bob Dole is now considered a progressive achievement? Do you and Bill admit that Obama has damaged the term progressive by talking like one while pushing full bore for a rightwing and corporatist agenda?

cmaukonen July 7th, 2012 at 2:17 pm

Well it is difficult to criticize someone who is some much in ones own house without resorting to making him a gargoyle on your own rampart.

elisemattu July 7th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

Has the President or any of the top leadership people in the Democratic Party become aware of how tired and disillusioned people have become of both political parties? In my county alone (Lake County, Calif.) a full 20% of all voters are now registered third party. And of the 40% of Dem voters that showed up for the primaries, a full 3% primaried Mr Obama. So right there, you have 23% of my County wanting someone other than Obama, and these are lefties, not evil KKK types. Many people probably will sit it out this time around, but does mr Obama care about that?

We voted for definite change, with 62.5% of the electorate making sure our voices were heard in 2008. Now so many of us don’t feel it has done any good. And Obama perhaps is not aware that he hasn’t delivered on what we expected from him? What does Obama think of his DOJ’s failure to prosecute the Big Banking Executives? Even in those cases where whistle blowers have documents showing the complicity of Big Mortgage firms, and “Sixty Minutes” lets the viewers know prosecutions could have been underway, with expert testimony that would guarantee the conviction of those who committed criminal acts, nothing resulted from people contacting the SEC or DOJ… Does it not matter to Mr Obama that fewer criminal prosecutions have occurred during the last three years than any other time during the last twenty years? Yet he let the DEA, DOJ and IRS go nuts over the medical marijuana clinics, which were employing people in areas where unemployment sits at 18% Is Obama not aware that these med marijuana clinics were contributing some 125 millions of dollars to Calif’s state coffers, and countless more monies to local economies? When will Obama get how dissatisfied we are as a nation with the fact that the Two Parties are One Big Money Party, and even Bill Moyers claims this country has become a Plutocracy?

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 2:18 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 18

As a long time media professional, do you have any ideas—beyond the “fairness” of false equivalences—as to why the media has become so lazy?

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 2:18 pm
In response to spocko @ 15

I’m not sure the answer is to sink their level and start an ugly name=calling contest against conservatives. I think that money is better spent with ads, books,, whatever, just telling the truth. I also think Obama and other top Democrats need to do a better job of exposing their lies and calling them out on it. Call Boehner a LIAR when he says the stimulus did not create one job. Call McConnell a LIAR when he says Obamacare is European-style health care.

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 2:20 pm

I know you’re typing, but here’s another question I’d love to hear your response to. Why doesn’t Obama fight back just as relentlessly as the right attacks him—and with ad hominems? Is he afraid of being accused of being a conspiracy theorist, as Hillary Clinton was when she bruited about the non-imaginary “vast right wing conspiracy” that dogged her and her husband?

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 2:20 pm
In response to BeachPopulist @ 16

I don’t defend Obama on those policies. I don’t see how anybody can defend holding Americans indefinitely without a trial. It’s blatantly unconstitutional. It’s pure Bush and Cheney. And I think its important that liberals raise hell about it. I do – on my show and at the White House briefings.

cmaukonen July 7th, 2012 at 2:21 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 26

“I never gave anybody hell. I simply told the truth and it felt like hell” – Harry Truman.

spocko July 7th, 2012 at 2:21 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 20

Actually I’m thinking more about the kind of swift reacting groups that were in existence during the Obama campaign. What happened to them? They learned from Kerry that you don’t just let them spew and not respond.

I know Media Matters exists but it is really a drop in the bucket vs. the Koch, Scaife, and Olin money.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 2:22 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 17

Good point. They rely on the ignorance of the majority of Americans, which is usually a sure bet. That’s why I call myself a liberal, not a progressive. Why hide it?

Ready July 7th, 2012 at 2:22 pm
In response to elisemattu @ 24

Obama thinks we have no choice but to vote for him.

It’s him or Romney in this corrupt two party system.

I say we vote NO CONFIDENCE IN THE CORRUPT SYSTEM.

BeachPopulist July 7th, 2012 at 2:23 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 26

Does that mean that we should call Obama a liar when he spends nine months talking about supporting a Public Option AFTER he already negotiated it away in a secret deal with big Pharma and AHIP?

How about when he said his would be the “most transparent administration ever” yet has greatly expanded claims under the State Secrets doctrine and has initiated criminal prosecutions against more whistleblowers than all previous Presidents combined?

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 2:23 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 28

And here’s another question for you, when you come up for air from whatever you’re typing. Does the “horse race” mentality in the media benefit one side over the other? Is there a “coolness” factor, in which the media favors not the candidate whose politics they favor but the one who looks more like a winner, more like the one that they’re listeners/readers like? When the candidate with a greater cool factor is an Obama, does that intensify the anger on the right? Taking this still further, is some of the disillusionment with Obama, analogous to the waxing and waning of public sentiment regarding movie stars and other celebrities?

Ready July 7th, 2012 at 2:25 pm
In response to BeachPopulist @ 33

Yes, we need to call Obama what he is: a LIAR. A FRAUD. A TOOL OF THE ELITE.

When people on the Right that you know see you doing this to their side as well as to your own side they start thinking that maybe both sides are corrupt.

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 2:25 pm
In response to Ready @ 32

I’m sure Bill will have something to say to this, but my question to you would be how do you vote “no confidence.” A vote for Romney is a vote for Romney. A vote for a third party candidate is a vote for Romney and an abstention in a battleground state is a vote for Romney too. How does voting for Bain capital advance a progressive agenda?

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 2:26 pm
In response to Ready @ 19

I couldn’t disagree more. And, frankly, you;re just dead wrong. How can you call the guy who’s ending the Bush wars in Iraq and Afghanistan a “war monger?” And how can you say the president who pushed through the stimulus, with only 3 Republican votes; who saved auto workers their jobs; who has sent several job bills to Congress,, each one of which has been killed by Republicans; and who supported the referendum to overturn John Kasich in Ohio — “anti-worker.” Look, I don’t agree with Obama on everything. He’s disappointed me, too, on some issues. But you have to be fair. And know your facts.

Ready July 7th, 2012 at 2:27 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 36

We need to show the elites we are not playing the pretend two party game any more that one party represents half of us and the other party represents the other half.

De-legitimize them.

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 2:27 pm
In response to Ready @ 35

Or they celebrate the fact that their opposition is so distracted fighting with themselves.

BeachPopulist July 7th, 2012 at 2:28 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 34

Just speaking for myself, Mr. Goldwag, but I take offense to the idea that the “disillusionment” many of us who have been true Democrats and progressives for decades (more than fifty years in my case) feel with Obama is anything akin to our opinions of celebrities. Many of us here are deeply interested in issues, do lots of research, and engage in vibrant discussions. In fact, many of us here regularly deride the general public’s fascination with American Idol, the Kardashians, Snooky, and Tom Cruise’s latest divorce. We’re not into distraction by “shiny object”.

eCAHNomics July 7th, 2012 at 2:28 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 18

didn’t crack down near enough on Wall Street

Can you name one example of O’s crack down on Wall St?

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 2:29 pm
In response to BeachPopulist @ 22

In response to your question on health care….I don’t have a problem with the individual mandate or the penalty/tax. I think everyone who CAN afford to buy health insurance should do so (it’s the only way to get everybody in the pool), and I sure as hell don’t want to pay for freeloaders. I think Obama’s big mistake was folding on the public plan option. I really think he could have won that one if he had fought for. Now I agree with Tom Harkin: our first goal, post Supreme Court decision, should be to add a public plan option next year.

spocko July 7th, 2012 at 2:30 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 26

I’m not sure the answer is to sink their level and start an ugly name=calling contest against conservatives.

I did NOT say that. I asked about COMBATING it. And putting some real money behind combating it, not just hoping that the media will do it.

I think that money is better spent with ads, books,, whatever, just telling the truth.

Yes, but what happens is it already lets them set the frame that we have to constantly be responding to.

I also think Obama and other top Democrats need to do a better job of exposing their lies and calling them out on it. Call Boehner a LIAR when he says the stimulus did not create one job.

Yes. But again, we are responding to their set up.

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 2:30 pm
In response to Ready @ 38

This is worthy of a great deal of discussion, because frankly I think both parties are wedded to an outdated and discredited economic consensus. But that said, there are such vast differences on a practical level–Obama is wrong about many things, but the Republicans are wronger and their wrongness isn’t abstract. Elect Romney and it doesn’t advance the progressive cause–it restores the Bush agenda, it may well lead to a third war, etc. etc.

bearman July 7th, 2012 at 2:31 pm

Bill..2 topics:

I am from Salem County NJ and you called me at home 11 years ago. My step father was named Press you were looking up your famiy tree..how is that going?

Why has Obama and the Dems taken up the right wing agenda of Pete Peterson trying to cut SS and Medicare? (The Grand Baragin)

Ready July 7th, 2012 at 2:32 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 37

Obama is anything but pro worker imo.

He has stated that his administration’s goal is to make American workers “competitive” with workers around the world. I fail to see how that plays out except through pushing wages down.

His tax policies gave business all kinds of breaks to buy equipment putting even more workers out of work.

If you think the auto bailout was worker friendly I don’t know what to say.

He is secretly negotiating the Pacific Partnership Trade agreement which would allow corporations to be above worker and environmental laws in this country.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 2:32 pm
In response to elisemattu @ 24

Are people tired of both political parties? Damned straight. I’d love to see a viable,, strong, third party in this country. But, for now – Is there a difference between the two parties? ABSOLUTELY. And if you don’t think so, you’re just kidding yourself. This election offers a real choice between two candidates with two totally different agendas. If you like George Bush, you’ll LOVE Mitt Romney. Get real!

BeachPopulist July 7th, 2012 at 2:32 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 37

Bill – What about Obama’s undeclared wars in Yemen, Somalia, etc? And as for ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, isn’t it true that the only reason we didn’t leave 40,000 troops in Iraq is because the Maliki government refused to immunize them from Iraqi legal jurisdiction? Or that there are now more troops in Afghanistan than when Obama came into office? Or that despite vows to leave in 2014, Obama negotiated a new deal with the Karzai government that allows US troops to remain for another ten years after that?

If we’re going to talk about lies told about Obama, shouldn’t we also talk about lies told by Obama?

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 2:35 pm
In response to BeachPopulist @ 40

I was actually talking about the media, not the FDL commenters. I’m sorry if I didn’t make myself clear. Obama was “the Messiah” for a while back in 2008, if you believed what they said on TV, and then a few months after he was inaugurated, he was over his head.

There’s the real criticisms, and then there are the memes. Many of the memes are much more powerful (eg, that Obama is a Socialist) than you can easily account for.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 2:35 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 25

The last chapter in my book deals with the lousy job the media is doing. I think there are several factors. One, budget cuts: almost no more investigative journalism, little independent reporting, fewer reporters on the beat. Two, 24-hour cable/online news: need to fill fast, no time to do real research. Three, corporate pressure: networks,, remember, are also corporations. Four, reporters have grown too damned lazy, just repeat what everybody else is saying.

Ready July 7th, 2012 at 2:37 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 49

The meme that Obama is a Socialist serves them very well which is why they pound it so hard.

The Left is left defending a Corporatist.

See how that works out for us?

OmAli July 7th, 2012 at 2:37 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 37

Mr. Press, respectfully, what did Obama do to support the workers in Wisconsin? His comfortable walking shoes are gathering dust in his closet.

I wore out some shoe leather supporting Obama. He has yet to return the favor.

greenwarrior July 7th, 2012 at 2:38 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 37

He’s recklessly engaging in drone warfare in any number of sovereign countries who are not fond of their people being killed – Pakistan comes to mind.

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 2:39 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 47

I read a wonderful quote about Third Parties yesterday in Hofstadter’s AGE OF REFORM (an epoch in American history with a lot of parallels to ours). He said that Third Parties die when they succeed in planting their ideas in the major parties, like bees die after they sting.

Whatever we can do to move the major parties to the left, we should be doing–but (and I know you agree with me on this), I can’t see how handing the right victory after victory helps our cause. Elect Obama and then hold his feet to the fire.

PeasantParty July 7th, 2012 at 2:39 pm

Hi, Bill.

I watch you in the mornings when I can. I am wondering if there was one particular moment or comment that made you decide to write the book? Also, you have many guests on your show, is it ever hard for you to look at them when you know they are blowing smoke in your face?

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 2:40 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 27

As to why Obama doesn’t fight back harder….I honestly don’t know. I wish he would. Don’t take any shit from these guys. But that’s just not who Obama is. Some of it is, I think White House is afraid of his looking like an angry black man. But that’s also Obama’s style,, to rise above it, not stoop to their level. Too bad. When he gets mad, he’s good!

spocko July 7th, 2012 at 2:40 pm

Also I’m of the mind that we need to understand how they are doing their attacks so we can combat them. Part of that is to really look into their methods to search for illegal activities and bust them before they break and also educate the targets (and the media) on how to deal with these attacks.

I’m thinking about James O’Keefe and the people who went to James O’Keefe University (sponsored by FreedomWorks) The right is funding people to be “Citizen Journalists” so they can attack Unions and government employees and liberal institutions.

So for example imagine how different things would be at NPR and Shirley Sharrod if the institutions knew how to deal with these smears and had a professional crisis PR team working the case. Both NPR and Sharrod’s institution were suckered into believing the edited videos. Nobody had their back or were out actively trying to expose their BS.

So for example you are all familiar with the Arkansas Project. In your research did you come across the people who are doing the kind of crap that they were paying people to do against Clinton?

cmaukonen July 7th, 2012 at 2:40 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 50

Which is why I do not watch or pay attention to American media. I watch AlJazerra, DW, France24, RT, NHK. Read The Guardian, The Telegraph, The Independent, the English versions of Spiegle.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 2:40 pm
In response to cmaukonen @ 29

During the 2008 campaign, I said many times of Obama: “We need more Harry Truman, and less Gandhi.”

OmAli July 7th, 2012 at 2:41 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 54

We did elect Obama. We have held his feet to the fire. I have no illusions that this time will be any different. None.

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 2:41 pm
In response to PeasantParty @ 55

When you answer Peasant Party, I’d love to hear your thoughts about some of the point counterpoint shows that you have been on yourself. Do you think they advance political discourse, or turn it into entertainment (or both)?

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 2:43 pm
In response to spocko @ 30

Spocko’s right on this. The 2008 Obama campaign was brilliant at communications. The Obama White House has been asleep at the switch, and so’s the campaign so far. They need to step it up, big time. Brad Woodhouse at DNC does a good job. Put him in charge.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 2:44 pm
In response to Ready @ 32

Sure you have a choice. Don’t vote. Or vote for Romney. And you deserve what you get. I learned the hard way. I refused to vote for Humphrey in 1968,, and got stuck with Nixon. I’ll never make that mistake again,, and you shouldn’t either.

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 2:45 pm
In response to OmAli @ 60

“This time” may well be Romney’s time. Do you honestly believe there will be NO difference? None?

Me personally, I find it scary that progressives are angrier at Obama than they are at his opposition.

BeachPopulist July 7th, 2012 at 2:45 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 56

Bill — Obama doesn’t have to be the “angry black man”. We’d settle for him being the “steadfast progressive President”. But like you said, that’s not who he is. He’s a hardcore conservative masquerading as a progressive Dem. His economic policies and attitude toward justice and civil liberties are to the right of Bush, and even Nixon.

So I reiterate: If we’re going to talk about lies told about Obama, shouldn’t we also talk about lies told by Obama?

P.S. A lot of us here feel that Obama has effectively killed both the progressive and the Democratic party brands for at least a decade, if not a generation. Dems, as led by Obama, don’t stand for anything except, maybe, begrudingly on some social issues like gay marriage. And even that had to pulled out of the Obama administration like a bad tooth by gay bundlers who closed their wallets.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 2:45 pm
In response to BeachPopulist @ 33

What’s your evidence Obama had already negotiated that away? Beware too many conspiracy theories. Come back down to earth.

CTuttle July 7th, 2012 at 2:45 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 54

…Elect Obama and then hold his feet to the fire.

What was ’08, a dry run…? Do you remember Rahm Emmanuel’s infamous ‘F*cking Ret*rds’ quip when the progressives were pushing for Single Payer…? 8-(

OmAli July 7th, 2012 at 2:47 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 64

It is long past time to stop being scared. I am not scared. I am angry.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 2:47 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 34

Hey, sorry to get so far behind. I’ll try to type faster and shorter answers. Arthur – EXCELLENT question. Best example of what a lousy job media is doing today: their reliance on polls and all this talk of horse race – which began in 2009! Waste of time! Talk about the differences in issues. Most Americans don’t know enough to make an informed decision yet.

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 2:48 pm

I’m a single payer person myself (hell, I’m basically a socialist). But I’d rather have Obamacare on the books than nothing.

BeachPopulist July 7th, 2012 at 2:48 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 66

It was reported in multiple media during the HCR battle and then confirmed in Tom Daschle’s book.

RevBev July 7th, 2012 at 2:48 pm

Do you think there may be a game plan to impeach him? Nothing would surprise me.

PeasantParty July 7th, 2012 at 2:48 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 64

I have to respond to that one. It is my thought that all of us Progressives are angry at Obama, but more so with the Dem Congress. With that said, we are upset that Obama doesn’t side with them, or push them to where they should be.

greenwarrior July 7th, 2012 at 2:48 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 47

I didn’t like George Bush. I detest Obama and Romney. George Bush I could watch on TV if the sound was turned off. Obama I can’t even watch. I worked hard to get him elected. I regret that I worked to elect someone who has betrayed democratic policies. Indefinite detention? FISA? Assassination by presidential fiat? Civil liberties – worse under Obama than even how bad it was under Bush/Cheney.

Scarecrow July 7th, 2012 at 2:48 pm

For both our guests, how do you explain the Obama derangement syndrome on the right? Those critics on the left cite reasons totally different from the right, which appear unhinged from reality. What explains this?

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 2:49 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 36

Amen! Again, let’s get real. We have to be smarter than they are. You know for damned sure, the Tea Partiers get it. They don’t like Romney, but they’ll vote for him. They’re not going to throw their vote away. Are they smarter than you are?

Ready July 7th, 2012 at 2:49 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 63

I refuse to make the mistake of voting for Obama again.

Being sold out once is quite enough for me.

(No, I will not vote for Romney and the country should be outraged that a vulture capitalist like him is running for the presidency. But they don’t seem to mind the elites talking from the middle class to become multi millionaires)

dakine01 July 7th, 2012 at 2:50 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 66

FDL post from October 2010 with links to NY Times, Think Progress and others

HuffPo article from March 2010m, also quoting NY Times

spocko July 7th, 2012 at 2:50 pm
In response to OmAli @ 60

Exactly. What kind of leverage do we have after he is elected?

Think about who Obama is listening to and who he cares about keeping happy. Wall Street or Main Street. Wall Street can put money into the campaign coffers today and they have a very loud voice because people have come to equate them with “the economy”

They are NOT the economy. Yet, their lobbyists are in the White House ever day saying, “Think about us! Ignore the people.” It reminds me of that Onion headline, “US public hires lobbyist to talk to Congress”

tuezday July 7th, 2012 at 2:50 pm
In response to CTuttle @ 67

That and we needed to be drug tested.

cmaukonen July 7th, 2012 at 2:51 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 64

I don’t believe there will be much difference. But not because of any ideology or party affiliation.

But because TPTB do NOT reside on Capital Hill but on Wall Street and K Street. Which is why they are still doing exactly what they have been doing for the last 20 years or more and non of them have gone to jail.

And why the FED and Treasury and economic advisers have simply played a game of musical chairs.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 2:52 pm
In response to Ready @ 38

The only way for liberals/progressives/independents, whatever, to offer a choice is to organize and form a viable third party. I’m all for it. But until we’ve got one, I’ll choose between the two options we’ve got. And there’s NO WAY I’m going to turn the White House over to Bain Capital and give Mitt a chance to further stack the Supreme Court.

OmAli July 7th, 2012 at 2:52 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 70

I’m more a socialist, too. And I am sick and tired of “settling”. That is what has gotten us into this mess.

greenwarrior July 7th, 2012 at 2:52 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 54

Elect Obama and then hold his feet to the fire.

From a practical point of view, it works the other way around,

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 2:53 pm
In response to OmAli @ 68

Anger is good; anger is healthy. But people shouldn’t make critical decisions or operate heavy machinery when they’re enraged. I’m disappointed that Obama has been less effectual than he should have been, but I never thought he was all that progressive (I read his campaign literature and his promises of post-partisanship. What’s the point of post-partisanship if the other guys are wrong?). But the people who are looking to supplant him–and who are stirring up McCarthyism and channeling the vilest racism to do so–are evil.

BeachPopulist July 7th, 2012 at 2:54 pm
In response to dakine01 @ 78

And confirmed in Tom Daschle’s book.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 2:54 pm
In response to eCAHNomics @ 41

Unfortunately, Obama’s sole response to Wall Street is Dodd-Frank. Far too weak in my opinion. But Barney, one of the greatest liberals ever, insists it’s as much as they could get through this Congress. And Wall Street certainly doesn’t like it – Why do you think they’re giving so much money to Romney?

GlenJo July 7th, 2012 at 2:54 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 54

I respectfully disagree. I voted for Obama in 2008, but have not seen him act in a manner consistent with his stated views during his election campaign i.e. he is not representing me.

I will third party. If he wants my vote – he knows what to do, just start saying and doing what my third party is saying and doing, then I will switch my vote.

All that said, the amount of vitriol that Obama has thrown at him by the right is horrific. However, he has acted in a manner which has confused the “emotional” support from his base. Having a Chief of Staff which calls the “progressives” and the “new media” (bloggers)which are his natural supporters “f&*king retards” tends is tantamount to shooting a hole in your foot.

My question to Bill, could Obama effectively fight the Republican hate machine by embracing the “new media” and dumping the MSM?

robertg July 7th, 2012 at 2:55 pm

Well ,we agree to disagree, with all due respect for president Obama, he is a big liar as Romney,dems and the rt is.He fell very short expectations,big corporatist,even cynical,there is only one party: the money party,there are not differences between parties,all are the same.
And mandate is not the only way to get everybody in the pool(this is an expression for illiterate people),medicare for all,po,single payer were the solutions,Obama’s negotiations with insurers and Big Pharma (the same people who is paying for his chair)….ahhh.
Obama does not deserve a second term,that’s my opinion.

billthechowchow July 7th, 2012 at 2:55 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 42

Re: Health care

I sure as hell don’t want to pay for freeloaders.

Bill Press

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 2:56 pm
In response to GlenJo @ 88

Excellent question! Romney’s trying to do as much with the Breitbart/Drudge/FreeRepublic machine.

OmAli July 7th, 2012 at 2:56 pm

I’m not enraged. I am angry. And it is healthy. It certainly has cleared my head. The Cat Food Commission is evil. And who convened it?

PeasantParty July 7th, 2012 at 2:57 pm
In response to tuezday @ 80

Don’t forget he also told us to sit down and shut the fuck up!

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 2:57 pm
In response to robertg @ 89

Does George W. Bush deserve a third term though?

BevW July 7th, 2012 at 2:58 pm
In response to spocko @ 79

Spocko, I think there is push-back and pressure from the progressives. Look at how fast the Occupy Movement changed the conversation from deficits to foreclosures and Wall Street – and look how fast it was shut down. They were scared of the angry people in the streets.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 2:58 pm
In response to bearman @ 45

Hey, Cousin! My grandfather Press came from Salem to Delaware City. I’ve traced his ancestors back to 1820 in the Salem area, but haven’t yet traced them to Latvia, where I believe they orginally came from…I believe the changes Obama is seeking in Medicare is to make it more cost effective and cut costs of a lot of duplicate treatments, testing, etc. Big difference btween trying to improve it, and trying to abolish it, a la Paul Ryan.

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 3:00 pm

I don’t imagine there are a lot of books defending Romney against the left wing hate machine yet, but when they start getting published and their authors go on right wing forums like this one, do you think the participants will talk about how rotten Romney is, how he’s a Mormon and too close to Wall Street and might be pro-gay or pro-abortion or whatever?

I suspect not.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 3:00 pm
In response to Ready @ 46

Ask the AFL-CIO. Ask AFSCME. Ask the LABORERS. Ask the UAW. Ask the NEA and the AFT. Ask the SEIU. They’re all supporting Obama. Do you think it’s because he’s anti-worker?

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 3:01 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 97

Sorry…. Meant this question to go to Bill Press.

BeachPopulist July 7th, 2012 at 3:02 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 85

I never thought he was all that progressive

So you’re agreeing that he was lying to us during the campaign with all that brilliant progressive FDR/JFK-type rhetoric?

As I said in a previous comment that somehow “disappeared”, we are tired of being sold out. Only your own can sell you out. We don’t think a Romney administration would be all that much worse. What could they do?

Pamper Wall Street? Done by Obama.
Negotiate away our soverignty through a secret trade deal that offshores jobs? Already underway with TPP.
Imprison dissidents forever without trial? Obama already claims that power, as well as the power to assassinate citizens without due process of any kind.

Really, Bill, how much worse could a Romney administration be?

tuezday July 7th, 2012 at 3:02 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 94

If Obama wins a second term, GWB effectively gets a fourth.

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 3:03 pm
In response to BeachPopulist @ 65

Milquetoast middle of the roader, yes, way too quick to compromise. But hard core conservative? Have you ever met a hard core conservative?

greenwarrior July 7th, 2012 at 3:03 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 94

George Bush isn’t running.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 3:03 pm
In response to OmAli @ 52

Good point. I think Obama should have gone to Madison when Scott Walker first took on public employees. And I think he should have gone in to help Tom Barrett. I said so publicly. I pressed Jay Carney on it at White House. He DID endorse Barrett,, he should have done more.

PeasantParty July 7th, 2012 at 3:04 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 98

That reminds me of the way Poppa Bush left NAFTA lying until Clinton came into office and pushed him to complete it. It now appears that the same has happened with Obama in his trade agreements. Nobody said much about Bush Jr., trading nuke info with India for Mango shipments.

Why do you think Obama is focused on the Neo-Con Trade agreements?

cmaukonen July 7th, 2012 at 3:04 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 96

The only way you are going to “fix” Medicare or any of the health care in this country is to break the grip that the AHA, AMA, Medical Schools and pharmaceuticals have on it.

spocko July 7th, 2012 at 3:04 pm

Just to get back to the topic. Let’s look at the title.
“The Obama Hate Machine: The Lies, Distortions, and Personal Attacks on the President—and Who Is Behind Them

Okay.
1) Please name some names. Who? Please drill down for us.
2) What are their weaknesses?
3) How do you cut into their funding (see Heatland Institute, What we did with ALEC sponsors)
4) Who will fund us to do this work?

BTW, the ability to cut into their funding is very powerful and it was the basis for my strategy going after right wing radio. When you cut off the money they start focusing on that instead of their targets.

CTuttle July 7th, 2012 at 3:04 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 97

…on right wing forums like this one…

Do you really think FDL is Right Wing, Arthur…? 8-(

Ready July 7th, 2012 at 3:05 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 98

They are caught in the same dilemma we are: Romney and the Republicans hate workers. The Democrats were the party that traditionally were for the workers. Times have changed. The money and power is multinational now and they want labor arbitrage.

That doesn’t mean Obama is better. Yes he says he is pro worker. But what he does is another matter entirely.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 3:06 pm
In response to greenwarrior @ 53

The whole drone warfare issue, I think, is WAY under-reported – and a real cause for concern. We are using them to assassinate suspects in other countries we have not declared war against. I’ve been raising hell about this. But, again, most of the media – and most politicians – simply ignore what’s going on. What happens when another country fires a drone on U.S. soil????

Margaret July 7th, 2012 at 3:06 pm

Thank you for being here Mr. Press. While I find the mindless, racist, right wing hatred of President Obama to be absurd and in some cases disgusting, I find your daily defense of him and the ACA, (which was essentially the Heritage Foundation’s alternative to “Hillarycare” back in the 1990s), to be almost as disturbing. Does your book address the reflexive defense from some people on the left of what they would be decrying as abominable had identical legislation been passed under a Republican president? I mean, we know we’re deep into the rabbit hole when front pagers at places like Daily Kos daily defend what many right wing ideologues thought was the best idea since sliced bread in 1993.

OmAli July 7th, 2012 at 3:07 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 98

I truly don’t understand why they support him. I would like to see what happened with FDR. I’d like Obama to go to the 1% and say, the UNIONS and the leftists are not going to give you as good a deal as I am offering.

cmaukonen July 7th, 2012 at 3:07 pm
In response to Ready @ 109

Well actually it was originally the progressive wing of the republican party during TR’s terms. But they got the boot.

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 3:08 pm
In response to Scarecrow @ 75

This is a big question, because it speaks to what America is. To the racist right–which is more motivated by cultural issues (women, gays, non-believers, evolution) than they are by economic issues, Obama derangement is the same old nativist, isolationist, dominionist brew.

When progressives talk about throwing Obama overboard because of his progressive failures, they give these troglodytes (many of whom would burn witches, mandate church tithing and public prayer, and take the vote away from blacks and women if they could) a huge victory.

RevBev July 7th, 2012 at 3:08 pm
In response to CTuttle @ 108

I think you missed his point…;)

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 3:09 pm
In response to PeasantParty @ 55

Thanks for watching! Yeah, I hate it when guests simply stick to talking points, even if I agree with them. I push them as hard as I can – and then don’t invite them back…I decided to write the book after watching the right-wing intensity their personal attacks against Obama, once he won the presidency. Enough already! And, btw, it just keeps on and on. Latest? Now they’re saying he doesn’t have a legitimate Social Security number!

BeachPopulist July 7th, 2012 at 3:09 pm

hard core conservative? Have you ever met a hard core conservative?

As a matter of fact, I have. (Red state relatives.)

However, what’s even more important is to define hard core conservatism. You know that old saying that “if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it’s probably a duck”? Well, if he/it looks the other way on torture, war crimes, rampant financial crimes, then rams the Catfood Commission down our throats and tops things off with claims of unprecedented monarchial presidential powers to kill and imprison citizens without due process, to me that duck is a hard core conservative duck.

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 3:10 pm
In response to CTuttle @ 108

On right wing forums that are on the Internet and allow like-minded readers to exchange ideas. On analogous forums on the right. Sorry. I was typing way too fast. FDL is definitely not right wing!!!!

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 3:10 pm
In response to spocko @ 57

Spocko – I wish! No, I don’t know anybody who’s doing that kind of independent research. Think Progress and Media Matters come closest. Mother Jones is also doing some great stuff, thanks to David Corn.

CTuttle July 7th, 2012 at 3:11 pm
In response to RevBev @ 115

Just checking to see if he did his proper homework, RevBev…! ;-)

Ready July 7th, 2012 at 3:12 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 119

What we need to do is to infiltrate the Right. Not that hard to do. Then you show them how their side is working against their interests.

It’s much harder to fight when it’s coming from within.

STTPinOhio July 7th, 2012 at 3:12 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 56

I think White House is afraid of his looking like an angry black man.

Bingo! This trumps everything, because if you get “Angry Black Man” tape, Willie Horton lives again for the rest of the election season.

CTuttle July 7th, 2012 at 3:13 pm

Mahalo for quickly answering that…!

GlenJo July 7th, 2012 at 3:13 pm
In response to spocko @ 107

I think Obama needs to pull a Rove – make the other guy’s strength his weakness:

“Of course Romney’s going to raise more money – he’s rich just like the 1% that support him!”

“What I need now is votes, not money. But I need you to pass the news.”

“I’m running my campaign on a shoestring just like the average American is living on a shoestring.”

Maybe it’s just me, but “Forward” isn’t going to cut it. It’s got the emotional appeal of a banker talking about the world economy – you’re not sure if you believe him, but you’re pretty sure you’re getting screwed. I would suggest “Taking it to the streets” and when the MSM finally pins him down and asks if he supports OWS or the 99%, he shouldn’t dance around just say “I do”.

Margaret July 7th, 2012 at 3:13 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 116

Hmmm… I watch daily but I may be changing that habit after some of the ridiculous callers on the day you were discussing the implications of the possible discovery of the Higgs boson. It seemed like you guys were screening calls for the least knowledgeable people available. You should have invited a Physicist onto the program because that conversation was painful to me.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 3:14 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 61

Can’t believe I’m so far behind. Sorry!…I still think “Crossfire” was the best political debate show ever. Two hosts, two guests, one topic, one half-hour, unscripted. Sure, there was an entertainment factor, but it was mostly information, substance, debate. I don’t know of one substantive debate show today on television. The Five is a joke.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 3:15 pm
In response to BeachPopulist @ 65

Fine. Vote for Romney.

Ready July 7th, 2012 at 3:15 pm
In response to STTPinOhio @ 122

That’s why Obama was a perfect foil for any change.

He served their purposes so well.

We needed an angry, forceful leader to get us through this dark era and we got Obama.

“Reasonable”. “Nice”. “Ineffective”.

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 3:15 pm
In response to BeachPopulist @ 117

The hardcore conservatives I know are states rightists who want to return to the gold standard, shut down the EPA, and more. Some of them think a white “ethno state” would be a good idea too.

Everyone should attend a John Birch Society meeting, read up on Agenda 21, or maybe look at some Sovereign Citizen literature. You can go a whole lot further to the right than this profoundly flawed administration has.

cmaukonen July 7th, 2012 at 3:15 pm
In response to STTPinOhio @ 122

You got that right. I do firmly believe with out any doubt that America has become in some respects and in certain areas even more racist and bigoted than it was in the 1950s when I was growing up.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 3:17 pm
In response to RevBev @ 72

Wouldn’t surprise me, either. If Boehner held Holder in contempt of Congress – for a program started under George Bush – he’d willingly schedule a vote to impeach Obama if his Tea PArtiers demanded it.

Margaret July 7th, 2012 at 3:18 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 126

As are virtually all of the Sunday political shows, with extremely few exceptions. Even the venerable Meet the Press has degenerated into a joke since Gregory took over.

PeasantParty July 7th, 2012 at 3:18 pm
In response to Ready @ 128

Oh, the NeoCons think he is reall effective. As a matter of fact, Henry Kissenger said Obama would usher in the New World Order. They have been working on this for decades and finally have someone to work overtime for them on the plans.

tjbs July 7th, 2012 at 3:18 pm

o owns this. He’s shit on his base of support and now there’s no one to cover his back.

And he’s also an extraordinary war monger, no matter how far right that definition is now.

NorskeFlamethrower July 7th, 2012 at 3:19 pm

Citizen Bill Press:

I would like you to clarify whether or not those books from the “left” that criticized Obama for his lack of leadership on gay rights, single payer and continuing Bush’s policies on terrorism are wrong, wrong-headed or should just not have been published?

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 3:19 pm
In response to greenwarrior @ 74

To you and other disgruntled folks out there: Cool your jets, and take a long, hard look at Obama’s agenda, compared to Romney’s agenda. That’s the real choice, not what you want it to be.

PeasantParty July 7th, 2012 at 3:20 pm

Bill,

In your book do you discuss Capitalism and our current Economic downfall?

spocko July 7th, 2012 at 3:20 pm

Everyone should attend a John Birch Society meeting

“Have you now or have you ever attended a John Birch Society meeting?” :-)

Now about that John Birch society, as I’m sure the people here all know the Koch brother’s dad helped set that up.

I’m afraid to go because then my name will be on a list.

Ready July 7th, 2012 at 3:20 pm
In response to PeasantParty @ 133

That’s why I put “ineffective” in quotes.

Obama is only ineffective in advancing causes that help the people.

He has been very effective in advancing the causes of the elite.

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 3:21 pm
In response to GlenJo @ 124

I like a stronger Obama–and I thought when he started co-opting some of OWS’s memes about inequality, he got a lot stronger looking (sounding?)? I’d like to hear a lot more Krugman/Stiglitz/Galbraith than Geithner–and I think the public would too.

I don’t know if he’s worried about looking like an angry black man (though he gets called that anyway–THE ROOTS OF OBAMA’S RAGE and all that); he genuinely does have a cool temperament. Maybe if he reads this salon, he’ll get riled up. I wish he would because it’s terrible how disspirited the left is. It’s Romney’s biggest asset.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 3:21 pm
In response to Scarecrow @ 75

To Scarecrow – That’s what conservative David Horowitz called it: “the Obama derangement syndrome.” No doubt, a lot of it is racism. I think it’s also jealousy, because Obama is so good a communicator. They know that, in his own way – look at Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell – he gets things done. The only way they think they can stop him is to destroy him personally.

GlenJo July 7th, 2012 at 3:21 pm
In response to cmaukonen @ 130

Maybe not more racist, but certainly more vocal about it. We need to call them on it, old while racists are a small minority, and could probably get so ugly when even politely pressed, we could peel voted off the Republican party.

Mauimom July 7th, 2012 at 3:22 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 54

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jmaureenhenderson/2012/06/26/why-attending-law-school-is-the-worst-career-decision-youll-ever-make/

Um, that was the plan in 2008.

As soon as the “feet-to-fire” holding started, we were called . . . well, you know. “F***ing ret**ds.”

And it’s clear how pissed Obama gets whenever anyone doesn’t agree with him.

Teddy Partridge July 7th, 2012 at 3:23 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 62

(Any campaign that puts David Axelrod out front to make a speech right down the street from Romney HQ is committing political malpractice.)

Welcome, gentlemen, and thank you for your time today. My question for you both is: of all the corporate-funded hate and lies, what percentage do you estimate is calculated to appeal to base racism of Obama as America’s first black president?

cmaukonen July 7th, 2012 at 3:24 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 136

Romney’s agenda is what ever benefits Romney. I know, I worked for a guy that had his exact personality. He sell Marxism if he could make a good profit on it.

greenwarrior July 7th, 2012 at 3:24 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 136

What Obama says his agenda is has the very smallest likelihood of being what is agenda actually is. My jets will start to cool when/if we get our civil liberties back. Without them, we do not have a functioning democracy. When I can’t protest in the streets without facing a militarized police, my jets run hot. It’s just the way it is.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 3:25 pm

Just a quick comment. Reading comments from those who are so disappointed in Obama they won’t vote for him again, makes me wonder: When did we ever have a PERFECT politician? When did we ever get 100 PERCENT from anybody? We are our worst enemy, people. Reminds me of Pogo: “We have found the enemy. And he is us!”

GlenJo July 7th, 2012 at 3:26 pm

Well, I can almost understand angry black man because I’m an angry man, and there’s lots of angry Americans right now. I too, would welcome a more populist, more vocal Obama. It would be fun to watch the MSM blow an artery and have a stroke on national TV. Heck, it might get me watching the MSM news again just for the fun of it.

spocko July 7th, 2012 at 3:26 pm

Yeah, what Teddy asked. also see my question 107.

Ready July 7th, 2012 at 3:26 pm

Don’t take this the wrong way but I won’t play their fool anymore.

Not one more day.

I am working against both Obama and Romney.

I am working against this corrupt two party system.

I won’t be party to the kabuki theater anymore that the choices the elites put before us to be president represent me or the vast majority of the American people.

tjbs July 7th, 2012 at 3:26 pm

I’m past being guilted for not choosing the lessor of two evils.

My vote is attached to my soul so no vote for o no matter what.

billthechowchow July 7th, 2012 at 3:27 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 97

I don’t imagine there are a lot of books defending Romney against the left wing hate machine yet, but when they start getting published and their authors go on right wing forums like this one,

,” Arthur Goldwag. You are lost.

Your author Bill Press’s statement regarding health care

I sure as hell don’t want to pay for freeloaders.

certainly belongs on a “right wing forum” which I imagine is very unlike this forum that does not demand blind allegiance.

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 3:27 pm
In response to spocko @ 138

The JBS isn’t all that big and effective a group, but it’s winning hearts and minds with the same fear-mongering about One Worldism and Sovereignty–and it has a huge megaphone in Glenn Beck and Allen West and the like. I doubt they’re members, but a lot of Beck’s political education comes from Skousen, who was. And West seems to get a lot of his ideas from Beck.

NorskeFlamethrower July 7th, 2012 at 3:27 pm
In response to greenwarrior @ 146

Citizen greenwarrior:

Right F**kin’ on!!

BeachPopulist July 7th, 2012 at 3:28 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 136

We have looked at Obama’s true agenda, and here’s what we see:

- Gutting of the social safety net through the Simpleton-Bowels Catfood Commission.

- Eradication of the Bill of Rights through massive warrantless surveillance, death of habeas corpus, indefinite detention, due-process free assassination of citizens, and efforts to muzzle dissent through persecution of Bradley Manning, Wikileaks, and other whistleblowers.

- Complete sellout to the 1% through abdication of prosecution for financial crimes.

- Massive expansion of the doctrine of American Exceptionalism in waging world-wide war, mostly in support of corporate exploitation of other county’s natural resources.

- Institutionalizing war crimes.

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 3:28 pm
In response to GlenJo @ 142

Not as small as you think. Not a majority–but a very determined and angry minority, with a lot of political pull.

dakine01 July 7th, 2012 at 3:28 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 147

I don’t think anyone expected to get near 100% of our wishes, especially given the Rs in Congress and their basic obstructionism

But there have been far too many times when President Obama has said he “supports” something (such as the Public Option), then negotiated it away; or his “fierce advocacy” for LGBT rights; or his “walking shoes for labor rights.

He talks the talk wonderfully but is woefully inadequate in actually walking the walk.

Margaret July 7th, 2012 at 3:29 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 136

That’s the real choice, not what you want it to be.

Once again we’re faced with a choice between evil and lesser evil. I think Obama beats Romney on almost every issue. Easily. Romney is and only ever will be an elitist snob who is about as capable of behaving like a common person as I am of successfully imitating a boa constrictor. But “better than” is a faaaaaaaar cry from “good”. That’s no way to run a supposed “democracy”.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 3:29 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 85

Arthur makes an important point here. Look at his history. Obama’s no progressive, never was. No more than Bill Clinton was. Because he gave one speech opposing the war in Iraq, people painted him a flaming liberal – and projected their own liberalism on him. Big mistake. Still, he’s a hell of a lot better on MOST of our issues than Romney. Hate to keep coming back to that, but THAT IS THE ISSUE IN THIS ELECTION.

greenwarrior July 7th, 2012 at 3:30 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 147

Did someone here demand perfection? I’m interested to know why you put that up as a straw man. Is it to try to change our views?

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 3:31 pm
In response to GlenJo @ 88

Two points. First, time to move on from anger over Rahm’s outrageous remark – and certainly not hold it against Obama. Second, I definitelty think Obama has to pay more attention to new media – he already does a lot, but can do more – but he needs to work the MSM, too.

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 3:32 pm
In response to spocko @ 107

The Koch brothers loom very large in Bill’s book. Bill makes the very valid point that they prefer to work behind the scenes–calling them out by name, tracing the money trail, pointedly and loudly (as with ALEC) helps a lot.

DWBartoo July 7th, 2012 at 3:32 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 147

Now Bill, do not make the “perfect” the enema of the good.

You suggest that “the choice” is “between” Romney and Obama … yet both “represent” … more of the same.

The real choice MUST be for something MUCH better … and appeals, such as you make, to bloody mediocrity …. when civil society is being deliberately destroyed, by “more of the same”, is neither reasonable nor rational.

It is something else.

Entirely.

DW

defogger July 7th, 2012 at 3:32 pm

Arthur Goldwag#90 ,The right wing already loath Romney.They suffer him because he’s white and they can impose their will on him.Now ,you can answer my question :Do you think Romney would refer to teabaggers as “fucking retards, who have no where else to go ” ? And if he did ,do you think the right would be thought to have too much self-respect to then re-elect him if he put two of his operatives on the trail with a new book that whines about how everybody has victimized him and his high-minded efforts ?

OmAli July 7th, 2012 at 3:32 pm

I’d frankly like to hear a lot more Richard Wolff. And disspirited? I’d say the opposite. I’d say it’s more like finally starting to be the change we want to see in the world.

Margaret July 7th, 2012 at 3:33 pm
In response to dakine01 @ 157

There it is in a nutshell. I don’t want to hear Obama talk like a Liberal, I want to see Obama behave like a Liberal.

GlenJo July 7th, 2012 at 3:33 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 147

Bill, sorry I have digressed so much during your visit – I apologize.

I know Obama hates failing, but I would welcome him trying and failing rather than not trying.

As to 100% perfect, I realize he’s always been a Democratic party conservative, but if we don’t use our vote lever to pry him leftward right now then we are endorsing him moving further right later on. Sorry. I’ve drawn my line in the sand for 2012, it’s my way or the highway cause I’m a f&*king retard and proud of it.

And still, what can Obama do best to counter the right wing hate machine? Does “I welcome their hatred” sound familiar?

jettingby July 7th, 2012 at 3:34 pm

Bill, I would have to disagree with you regarding union support from Obama – - the Race to the Top money is all about busting the teacher unions – new evaluations that undermine senority, loss of continuing contracts ie ten year, pushing charter schools, and meritt pay. I listened to him at the 2007 NEA convention – judge him on what he does NOT what he says.

Teddy Partridge July 7th, 2012 at 3:34 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 141

That particular example — DADT repeal — only got done because radical activist veterans chained themselves to the fence around the house Obama lives in, over and over. Obama would have just as soon have the Lame Duck Congress ignore it, but he saw real political pain if he did. And letting it expire in the Democratic Congress to be taken up by the current jokesters was a non-starter.

Obama didn’t get DADT repealed because he believed in it, any more than he “changed” his views of marriage because of his beliefs. He was forced into these positions by vocal, change-demanding supporters who threatened to boycott his election, close their overflowing wallets and purses, and challenge him publicly for not keeping his promises.

Other progressives need to look at the LGBT movement for examples of how to get what you want from this president: fawning adulation and early endorsements don’t get things done (although some LGBT groups are really good at this too) embarrassing direct action does. Obama hates direct action against himself; like any politician, people in the streets frighten him.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 3:35 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 97

We all know conservatives don’t like or trust Romney. But they’ll bit their tongue and support him, because they want power. Conservatives don’t eat their own. Liberals do.

cmaukonen July 7th, 2012 at 3:35 pm
In response to Margaret @ 158

Both Romney and Obama will say what ever they believe they need to say to energize those they believe will vote for them. I take all that is aid up to an election with a very large grain of salt.

Once elected their agenda chances to not what their supposed ideology is but what they need on a resume for afterwords to get a good position in the private sector.

Clinton was a prime example of this as was G.H.W. Bush and nearly all in Congress these days.

greenwarrior July 7th, 2012 at 3:35 pm

A momentary pause – there are BIG FAT RAINDROPS coming down in my part of Texas.

Ready July 7th, 2012 at 3:37 pm

I didn’t leave the Democratic party, it left me.

I am not quite as dense as my Right Wing counterparts.

I don’t vote against my own interests.

Mauimom July 7th, 2012 at 3:37 pm
In response to Mauimom @ 143

Sorry, the item in quotes SHOULD have been the “elect Obama, then hold his feet to the fire.”

Computer has mind of its own.

BTW, Bill, I find your “okay then go vote for Romney” blow offs insulting. They dismiss the anger and disappointment that many of us — primarily those of us who worked hard for Obama, contributed $$$ to him, voted for him — feel. Such remarks also don’t acknowledge how BAD Obama’s policies have been.

Frankly, this just sounds like your version of Obama’s “we suck less” and “be very, very afraid of the Big Bad Republicans” memes. You [and Obama] ought to be taking a hard, respectful look at these sentiments, the incredible widespread-ness of them, and thinking about how to combat them and perhaps win some folks back.

“Okay, just go vote for Romney” is really a “F**k you.”

BTW, there are many who advocate voting Third Party, to demonstrate the number of voters who refuse to vote for Obama but want to make it known that they exist and vote.

Margaret July 7th, 2012 at 3:37 pm

Hear! Hear! We’re called bad names when we pressure the President to move left while corporate money pushing him to the right is just the way the game is played.

Ready July 7th, 2012 at 3:39 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 170

If you think Conservatives don’t eat their own then you haven’t been listening to the more radical Right like the followers of Mark Levine and Rand Paul.

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 3:39 pm
In response to greenwarrior @ 160

I would love to change your views. Because I don’t believe that a Republican victory this fall will energize the Progressive movement–I think it will be disastrous for it.

When I see people on the left projecting their disappointments onto Obama so intensely, I see some of the same demonizing I deplore on the right. The whole nature of our Federalist system is that it moves agonizingly slowly; in increments. If Kucinich or Ralph Nader had been elected in 2008, I doubt that very much of their agendas would have been realized either.

BeachPopulist July 7th, 2012 at 3:39 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 159

Bill — Obama did not portray himself as a progressive? He did not go back on his promised agenda? He didn’t betray his promises to his base?

Come on. It’s not just a handful of commenters here who are disgusted with Obama’s flip-flops. Look at the people with credentials who have been aghast at Obama’s turnabouts: Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Yves Smith, Matt Stoller, Jonathan Turley.

I read a post a few days ago about declines in major party registrations. The R’s are down some, the D’s are down enormous amounts, and third party/indy/decline to state numbers are skyrocketing. In some states this last category now makes up something like 35-40% of the electorate. You think this would be happening if President Pinocchio hadn’t sold us out?

tuezday July 7th, 2012 at 3:40 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 159

If Romney wins the dems will start to oppose that which we do not like. It’s the only way to get any opposition. Besides that a Goldman Sachs analyst thinks an Obama win with congress going red is a good thing. That tells me all I need to know.

jodo July 7th, 2012 at 3:40 pm

Obama and the Democrats need a big wake-up call. Things will never get better under this duopoly unless Romney wins and the Democrats begin to support issues that the majority of Americans want and need. Obama is not the answer to anything other than resurrecting the Republican Party and further entrenching monied interests.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 3:40 pm
In response to spocko @ 107

Now, we’re talking. And we all should be talking more about THIS – instead of growing our own left-wing Obama hate machine, which several people on this site seemed determined to do…The KOCH BROTHERS are the main people behind the OBHM. Joined, of course, by Sheldon Adelson, Foster Freise (sp?), Karl Rove, U.S. Chamber,, and others. Together, they’ll spend $1 billion in personal attack ads against Obama – of which $400 million from Charles and David Koch alone. There is NO comparable pot of money on the left. Priorities USA, the only PAC supporting Obama, has raised maybe $25 million.

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 3:41 pm
In response to defogger @ 164

Are Bill Press and me the two operatives? I certainly don’t have any connections to the White House. Rahm Emmanuel isn’t in the White House anymore either and I doubt that anyone that’s still in the White House thinks he was a very effective Chief of Staff.

jettingby July 7th, 2012 at 3:42 pm
In response to Mauimom @ 174

I agree! Dems and Rebs are anti worker – - vote third party down the line – the Dems have not supported workers for 30 years now.

Teddy Partridge July 7th, 2012 at 3:43 pm

We need more ex-Democrats and ex-Obamaites saying directly to the President: “I will vote for your re-election only, and only, if you DO ________. Not SAY ____________, DO ____________.”

Whatever your primary issue is (drone war, citizen assassinations, expanded war, fouling the earth) make this president DO something about it right now in exchange for your vote. Not his pretty words, his actual actions.

It worked for the DREAM kids. They got their executive order. It can work for you. And this will out-shout any of the hate manufactured by corporatists on the right for the “grassroots:” Obama actually responding with ACTION in exchange for the votes of former supporters coming back to the fold.

It’s powerful and it will work. But it won’t happen because liberal pundits scold us for withholding our vote; it will only happen by direct negotiation, possibly with our side chained to the White House fence.

greenwarrior July 7th, 2012 at 3:44 pm
In response to Mauimom @ 174

thank you for articulating my sentiments exactly.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 3:44 pm
In response to Margaret @ 111

Margaret – Like Arthur, I am a single-payer person. Have been so for 30 years. Totally support Dennis Kucinich and John Conyers on this. But, let’s face it, we don’t have the vote. Obamacare ain’t perfect, but it’s got a lot of good stuff in it. And, with a public plan option…it could be the stepping stone to single-payer. Let’s focus on making it better, instead of whining over what’s wrong with it.

GlenJo July 7th, 2012 at 3:45 pm

You do realize that if Gore had move left and taken the popular views espoused by Nader and got most of Nader’s voters, he would have won.

Why is it that fake “Teabaggers” can drag a party to the right, and real progressives or liberals dragging a party to the left are wasting their vote?

RevBev July 7th, 2012 at 3:45 pm

What would you choose for a good return? We could make it a project.

Teddy Partridge July 7th, 2012 at 3:45 pm

I would like to hear Obama asked that direct question (Bill Press?): “Do you think Rahm Emanuel was an effective White House Chief of Staff?”

DWBartoo July 7th, 2012 at 3:46 pm
In response to BeachPopulist @ 178

Obama is “about” deception, BP.

I suggest that everyone, when time may permit, google the word, “deception”, and read the entry at wikipedia …

Trust is the necessary “currency” of our time and place, and the political class, as a whole, including the media, are NOT about establishing or nurturing trust, or honesty, or conscience … and we all know that, even if some “pundits” and others would like us to DOUBT our own understanding, not of a day, a week, or a year, but of years and of decades.

Which are YOU going to believe, you own understanding or those selling snake oil?

DW

PeasantParty July 7th, 2012 at 3:47 pm
In response to greenwarrior @ 172

WHOOP!

May you have zillions more.

tjbs July 7th, 2012 at 3:47 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 170

The left wants justice for all, not POWER.

Where does o come down on this ?

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 3:47 pm
In response to Ready @ 121

Good idea – and that would be worth spending some money on. Somehow, we have to convince so many middle-class Americans from voting against their own economic interests.

jettingby July 7th, 2012 at 3:48 pm

We are repeating the “Robber Baron” years – corps. run the country and the politicians – - working folks don’t stand a chance in this envirionment – - if the politicians were supporting the people that vote for them – money would not be as big a issue as it is now

tuezday July 7th, 2012 at 3:48 pm
In response to tuezday @ 179

sorry meant staying red

greenwarrior July 7th, 2012 at 3:48 pm

might be easier to deal with my mind if you first requested some changes from this administration. among other things, should banksters be wearing presidential cufflinks?

DWBartoo July 7th, 2012 at 3:49 pm
In response to greenwarrior @ 172

May the heavens open, and the soothing, nurturing rains fall lovingly on this parched land … greenwarrior!

DW

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 3:49 pm
In response to GlenJo @ 187

Because the Tea Baggers are phonies–even Ron Paul is going to pull the lever for Romney, and everyone knows it. I don’t mind when Progressives threaten to withhold their votes on matters of conscience–Obama is a politician, he wants to win and the voices of disappointed progressives do figure somewhere in his calculations.

But it would be wretched to live through what I lived through in 2000 again.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 3:49 pm
In response to GlenJo @ 124

I like those suggested themes. To me, “forward” sounds too much like MSNBC.

Mauimom July 7th, 2012 at 3:50 pm

I doubt that anyone that’s still in the White House thinks he was a very effective Chief of Staff.

Did Obama [or Axelrod or any of those clowns] ever come out & say, “Rahm misspoke himself. He should NOT have criticized & insulted a large contingent of Dems who supported the president and who fiercely support policies to make this country better. We value the views and energy of all Democrats”?

Naw. Couldn’t do that.

But be that as it may, I think most of us, while “hurt” at being called f**king ret*rds,” could get over that stick/stone. What we’re REALLY pissed about is the litany of items listed in the comments above: the Catfood Commission, the attacks on civil liberties, the failure to go after either the Bush era criminals or the bankers, etc. What he’s DONE, not what he’s said.

Ready July 7th, 2012 at 3:50 pm
In response to greenwarrior @ 196

I hope Dimon is wearing them when he falls.

Teddy Partridge July 7th, 2012 at 3:50 pm
In response to RevBev @ 188

The Obama broken promise around which most former supporters seem incredibly motivated is his pledge not to use federal resources to attack patients and their caregivers who are abiding state laws on medical marijuana. He could, with a stroke of his pen and with no Congressional action whatsoever, reclassify marijuana from being a Schedule A drug.

This would, incidentally, have the excellent side benefit of distracting the Hate Machine into a total cul-de-sac for the remainder of the election: motivating the small minority of Americans who think our country’s Drug War is working.

Margaret July 7th, 2012 at 3:50 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 186

And, with a public plan option…

I hate to break this to you but there isn’t a “public plan option”. This is going to absolutely break a lot of working poor people just as surely as any actual medical emergency would have. This is not something you can debate with me, it’s just arithmetic.

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 3:50 pm
In response to greenwarrior @ 196

No, they shouldn’t.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 3:50 pm
In response to Margaret @ 125

Margaret – Sorry! Couldn’t find a physicist that early. We tried. But, hey,, at least we talked about the Higgs Boson. How many other talk shows did?

BeachPopulist July 7th, 2012 at 3:51 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 186

And, with a public plan option…it could be the stepping stone to single-payer. Let’s focus on making it better, instead of whining over what’s wrong with it.

Jeez, Bill, do you have any idea how ludicrous this sounds in light of the fact that just a few days ago the so-called Progressive Caucus came out and said that there would be no efforts to incorporate a public option or pursue single payer? (The title of the post here was “Well, That Didn’t Take Long”.)

Teddy Partridge July 7th, 2012 at 3:52 pm

Before we end here, I want to raise a great HUZZAH to our guests. We’ve had many, many others bail midway under similar sustained criticism, and I want to acknowledge that these two guys stayed and answered questions until the very end. Remarkable and noteworthy.

Thank you, gentlemen.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 3:52 pm

Of course, they should have been published. I’m not against legitimate criticism of Obama. I do it myself, have pissed off the White House many times.

cmaukonen July 7th, 2012 at 3:53 pm

Oh I don’t know Arthur. I have done pretty well when Bush was in the WH. I can now trade my 1998 Subaru for a House In Cleveland.

tjbs July 7th, 2012 at 3:53 pm

We’ve been jammed up against the ” endless war” wall since Vietnam. So where’s the “incremental” movement back to a peace based society? All I see is the war mongers march to the right in the last 40 years ?

BevW July 7th, 2012 at 3:53 pm

As we come to the end of this great Book Salon discussion,

Bill, Thank you for stopping by the Lake and spending the afternoon with us discussing your new book and right-wing attacks on progressives and Obama.

Arthur, Thank you very much for Hosting this great Book Salon.

Everyone, if you would like more information:

Bill’s website (BillPressShow) and book (The Obama Hate Machine)

Arthur’s website and book (The New Hate)

Thanks all, Have a great weekend, stay cool.

Tomorrow: Hannah Gurman / The Dissent Papers: The Voices of Diplomats in the Cold War and Beyond; Hosted by Michael K. Busch

If you would like to contact the FDL Book Salon: FiredoglakeBookSalon@gmail.com

greenwarrior July 7th, 2012 at 3:53 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 186

i don’t believe margaret was whining. do you really think this venue is a place where if you denigrate people they’ll come over to your side?

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 3:53 pm

I would love to see total legalization across the board–and it would certainly win Obama a lot of love from some. But do you think this is a popular issue? I was just reading this week about how weakly it polls; even a lot of hardcore libertarians find reasons to back away from it.

RevBev July 7th, 2012 at 3:54 pm

Surely there’s a leader/articulate voice to make alot of noise….Counter all the “dirty hippie/druggie” stuff. Thanks.

OmAli July 7th, 2012 at 3:55 pm
In response to BeachPopulist @ 206

But it is still alive in their hearts. Or somewhere…

Gitcheegumee July 7th, 2012 at 3:55 pm

I have commented before that it is disgraceful that current Dems do NOT use FDR and his memorable fights(and WINS) against Wall Street-mesmerizing speeches against the MOTU-and the creation of the New Deol.

Mr. Press any idea WHY FDR seeems to be a fourletter word to present day Dems?

Teddy Partridge July 7th, 2012 at 3:55 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 208

You make a distinction here, though: between your criticism and some of our commenters. I’m not sure how you too can’t be called out for your Obama criticism as enabling a Romney election, by more rabid supporters of the president. Where do you draw the line, Bill, between your Obama criticism and others’?

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 3:55 pm

Teddy – I would say 50 percent of it is aimed at Americans who are uncomfortable with, or afraid of, or hate the fact that a black man sits in the Oval Office.

greenwarrior July 7th, 2012 at 3:55 pm
In response to PeasantParty @ 191

too bad, it’s already been and gone. but thanks for the thought.

tuezday July 7th, 2012 at 3:56 pm

x2

Teddy Partridge July 7th, 2012 at 3:56 pm
In response to tuezday @ 179

No, leading democrats will not do that. Don’t you remember the very first thing Nancy Pelosi said, about impeachment being off the table, as soon as she became Speaker with a Democratic House majority? They don’t play that way. They might make lots of noises about President Romney continuing war-criminal policies of former President Obama, but they won’t DO anything about it.

Not one thing.

DWBartoo July 7th, 2012 at 3:56 pm

Perhaps you should read the articles about support for legalization, here at FDL, Arthur? Recent articles, here, would seem to disagree with your too easy dismissal of the broad and deep interest in this subject.

DW

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 3:57 pm
In response to BevW @ 211

Thank you Bev and Bill! I find these Salons so exhilarating, even if everyone doesn’t agree with everything I say (and I don’t agree with everything everyone else says either)!

RevBev July 7th, 2012 at 3:58 pm
In response to greenwarrior @ 219

O dear…I was going to look outside…it’s still in forecast for tonight;)

perris July 7th, 2012 at 3:58 pm

I am late to this thread, allow me to join the legions of people from the left who have sharp critism for this president, so much so I plan on campaigning against his reelection;

I list about 10 books critical of Obama from the left. They’re really not so much HATE Obama books as books critical of his lack of leadership on some critical issus: like gay rights, or single-payer – and his continuation of many Bush policies on terrorism.

I agree with most of that critical content, I do not believe it goes nearly far enough

first of all, this “lack of leadership” charge can only be leveled if one were to believe the president “wants to be progressive but can’t get it done”

a ridiculous assumption, this president is eminently adept at accomplishing his corporate agenda, he didn’t want a public option and actually lobbied against it by dealing it away to the insurance industry before discussion even began

he didn’t want accountability for crimes against our privacy, against our national security, against our intellectual property and dealt that accountability away before discussion even begun

he didn’t want accountability against war crimes and dealt that away before it began

he didn’t want fair competition in the drug industry and dealt that away before it began

he didn’t want to end the redistribution of middle class assets (marketed as “bush tax cuts” and dealt that away before discussion began

he didn’t want to protect the public sector, he didn’t want to protect or reinforce social security, he didn’t want to protect our social network of protections that we’ve invested for generations

so saying he “lacked leadership” doesn’t address the real issue

that issue is this;

the president is a wolf in sheep clothing, a trojan horse, a benedict arnold, he is a corporatist

every policy has been using the ridiculous “trickle down economic” method for giving those with more money then they can spend even more middle class assets

he is a corporatist, an trickle down economist and he loathes Keynesian economics

it’s not “hate” when it comes from the left, nor is it unearned, it is valid and the left has to decide the following;

do we want a quaterback on our team who’s goal is to insure the other team wins?

if I know my quaterback is working for the other team I am giving the other team the ball so my defense can work at preventing goals, if I allow the quaterback on my team possesion the other team WILL score more goals then they could possibly score if the had the ball

so there you have it, this president needs to be fired

Ready July 7th, 2012 at 3:58 pm

The truth is there for all to see, America is broken by this corrupt two party system.

We must break it for the sake of our country and ourselves.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 3:58 pm

Now, please explain. Why is my comment about not wanting to pay for freeloaders a “right-wing” comment? I’m sorry. If somebody can AFFORD health insurance, but deliberately does not buy it – and then expects us to bail his ass out when he goes to the emergency room – I’m off that bus.

Teddy Partridge July 7th, 2012 at 3:59 pm
In response to Gitcheegumee @ 216

Because FDR “welcomed their hate” when speaking about the finance titans.

Obama welcomes their donations.

gesneri July 7th, 2012 at 3:59 pm

I appreciate reading your views, Mr. Press, but remain unconvinced. As a 45+ year Democrat, I changed my party degsignation to “Unaffiliated” in 2010 and will vote third-party this year. I’m too old to swallow the bulls**t any longer. Democrats have sold us out.

BevW July 7th, 2012 at 3:59 pm

Thank you –

Before we end here, I want to raise a great HUZZAH to our guests. We’ve had many, many others bail midway under similar sustained criticism, and I want to acknowledge that these two guys stayed and answered questions until the very end. Remarkable and noteworthy.

Thank you, gentlemen.

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 4:00 pm
In response to DWBartoo @ 222

I’m for legalization; completely, without reservation. What I was saying was that I think the president has decided that it’s not a winning issue for him.

BeachPopulist July 7th, 2012 at 4:00 pm

it would be wretched to live through what I lived through in 2000 again.

What you lived through in 2000? What, a stolen election? Yeah, bad enough. But if Gore had carried his own home state, he would have won.

What you don’t seem to realize is that what we’re living through now is much worse than anything we lived through in 2000, or the intervening years up to the 2008 election. Sure, the economy tanked at the end of Bush’s term, but Obama has done NOTHING to prosecute the criminal banksters who caused it. Instead, the TBTF banks have been rewarded, grown even larger, and have more political clout than before!

What people are living through today? Massive unemployment, millions homeless, rampant illegal foreclosures and mortgage fraud, INCREASED offshoring of jobs, even worse civil liberties abuses. Jeez, Mr. Goldwag, get a clue!

We’re not so much afraid of Romney because we don’t think that practical, everyday things can get much worse. Hell, even Obama’s “saving” of the auto industry was overseen by a corrupt hedge fund rat and resulted in the closing of domestic factories so that GM could import 750,000 MORE cars every year from freaking China.

Bad under Bush? Lots of people would be happy to go back to that situation, as it was preferable to the shitstorm raining on us now.

Bill Press July 7th, 2012 at 4:00 pm
In response to BevW @ 211

Good night, everybody. Thanks for joining in. See you on Current TV. And thanks, Arthur, for being a great partner – and a great voice for progressives everywhere!

OmAli July 7th, 2012 at 4:00 pm

Thank you Mr. Press and Mr. Goldwag. And thank you so much Bev, those who so thoughtfully commented, and most of all to FDL for making this discussion possible.

Mauimom July 7th, 2012 at 4:00 pm

thanks for saying that, TEddy. Agreed.

Bill, if you’re still here, I like to suggest that you take a look at these “critical” comments re Obama. We’re NOT motivated by hatred or racism. But we are disappointed, and we are angry. And we’re particularly disappointed and angry that Obama doesn’t seem to care about us and about the issues we treasure.

We’re not the crazies on the Right. We deserve some respect and understanding — as much as he gives to the bankers. After all, we may not have as much money as they do, but we have the votes.

tuezday July 7th, 2012 at 4:00 pm

you have a point, I’m just instinctively against anything GS is for.

DWBartoo July 7th, 2012 at 4:01 pm

There ya go again, Teddy, causing “conditions” which result in storms of laughter.

;~DW

eCAHNomics July 7th, 2012 at 4:02 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 63

Nixon was far to the left of Obama.

OmAli July 7th, 2012 at 4:02 pm

That is it, in a nutshell . It isn’t about HIM.

PeasantParty July 7th, 2012 at 4:02 pm

You are welcome, and thanks for sharing your thoughts and reasons with us. We have discussed these issues for a long while here at FDL. The Gabby Giffords shooting didn’t solve or help any at all with the right wing hate machines.

We normally keep it civil, however a person has to put their feelings out there in order for others feeling the same. It is hard to support Obama when he fails so miserably at supporting the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Gitcheegumee July 7th, 2012 at 4:03 pm

Excellent analysis,Ted.

The stark contrast between “doz” Dems and “dez” Dems provides too sharp a contrast…

Arthur Goldwag July 7th, 2012 at 4:03 pm

Well, my clock reads 7:01. Thank you again, Bill, and thank you FDL readers for being so smart and passionate!

Good night, all. Where I am right now (visiting family in southern Pennsylvania) we’re getting a big thunderstorm. Maybe it will break the heat.

I look forward to reading and sometimes arguing with you all on future occasions.

Teddy Partridge July 7th, 2012 at 4:03 pm
In response to perris @ 225

Three things were always right in front of us (and all three were mentioned frequently on the FDL front page throughout the 2008 campaign, by the way): FISA, the Hamilton Project, Clean Coal.

Anyone who understood those three components of Obama’s political character should not be at all surprised at his being a corporatist.

Where he CAN be pressured, I think, is on promises he’s broken from 2008: pot, immigration/deportation, womens rights, using the power of the presidency without waiting on Congress.

RevBev July 7th, 2012 at 4:04 pm
In response to OmAli @ 239

Om, so sharp, as always;)

DWBartoo July 7th, 2012 at 4:05 pm

What DOES he consider to be a “winning” issue … beyond “more of the same”?

So, doing the right thing … is not worth doing unless it benefits Mr, Obama?

What about the benefit to reason … and human beings?

It is precisely THIS “pragmatic expediency” which “shines” throughout Obama’s “career, in fact, it defines him.

DW

perris July 7th, 2012 at 4:05 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 227

I agree with your sentiment, the execution is the problem

we CANNOT force people into buying from private industry without offering a public solution even if that were the issue standing alone

however that issue does not stand alone, it’s exacerbated by the near monopoly the insurance industry enjoys on a regional scale

nobody with a brain can compare this “mandate” to the mandate for auto insurance, first, you are not mandated to own a car and second a person can post their own bond and doesn’t have to participate in private industry at all

so it’s not your position that’s the problem it’s the president’s corporate driven model, and that is a huge problem

Gitcheegumee July 7th, 2012 at 4:05 pm

What about the EFCA? Employee Free Choiice Act?

OmAli July 7th, 2012 at 4:06 pm
In response to RevBev @ 244

I’m so glad we were both here tonight. I think there was a great deal of passion and honesty. I’m so proud to be here.

BeachPopulist July 7th, 2012 at 4:06 pm
In response to Mauimom @ 235

Well said, Mom.

jettingby July 7th, 2012 at 4:07 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 227

Bill,

If Obama wanted to cut the unemployment by 1 – 1.5% all he had to do was make medicare available for all. Do you have any idea how many people are working just for insurance who could otherwise retire?

Teddy Partridge July 7th, 2012 at 4:08 pm
In response to Gitcheegumee @ 247

Oh, yeah, that. It’s so easy to forget the broken promises as they pile up, especially those discarded in very early days. Although that one does represent a likely promise kept, to Hyatt hotel heiress Penny Pritzker, who feared EFCA most of all and led Obama’s 2008 finance committee.

See how that works? Public promise broken, private promise kept. We need to look inside all of Obama’s other broken promises for the private promise, the inverse, that he kept.

PeasantParty July 7th, 2012 at 4:09 pm
In response to jettingby @ 250

DC has no idea because they have never had to live the same life.

Teddy Partridge July 7th, 2012 at 4:09 pm

Magnificent chat, you all inspire me. Thank you so much!

Gitcheegumee July 7th, 2012 at 4:12 pm

In reply to Teddy at #251

Oh, and the Walton family is tickled pink no doubt also-long time WalMart union busters that they are.

Then ofcourse, Waltons,Goldman Sachs and Pritzker were ALL in a multimillion $$ deal together just a few years ago….

GlenJo July 7th, 2012 at 4:13 pm
In response to jettingby @ 250

Or how small businesses could GROW if they are not burdened with the private health care insurance industrial complex.

BeachPopulist July 7th, 2012 at 4:13 pm

Well, now that Bill and Arthur are gone, can we say what we really think about Obot apologists and Dem party apparatchniks?

STTPinOhio July 7th, 2012 at 4:13 pm
In response to jettingby @ 250

Do you have any idea how many people are working just for insurance who could otherwise retire?

Or would start businesses that would then hire others?

Margaret July 7th, 2012 at 4:15 pm

I wonder why Mr Press’ criticisms of Obama are “legitimate” while mine are just “whining”? Not a great way to keep a viewer either Bill.

billthechowchow July 7th, 2012 at 4:15 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 227

You unfortunately limit your response to for-profit health insurance. Why do you consider health care only for those who can afford it?

greenwarrior July 7th, 2012 at 4:17 pm
In response to Margaret @ 258

see my 212, which did not get answered.

Teddy Partridge July 7th, 2012 at 4:17 pm
In response to Margaret @ 258

Yes, it seems to me the “manners matter” admonishment about Book Salon goes both ways, and was egregiously violated here.

oldgold July 7th, 2012 at 4:18 pm

I am disappointed Bill Press was not allowed to discuss his book.

Rather, this burned into yet another emo-rant against Obama. It started at comment #16 and never let up.

defogger July 7th, 2012 at 4:20 pm

Mr. Goldwag .please ,when Rahm referred to as “fucking retards”he spoke for Obama ,and you know it .If Rahm had said that about Limbaugh,Obama would have walked it back in the same news cycle.”He went rogue ‘ .He went off the reservation ” or some other cowardly retreat .It ,along with the vicious punking of Kucinich were referred to as his’ Souljah’ ‘moments to attract independents.Your knavish condescension is almost as repugnant as the product for whom you two apologize .

DWBartoo July 7th, 2012 at 4:21 pm
In response to Margaret @ 258

Could it be that Bill only has little “criticisms” while you, Margaret, have meaningful and large ones?

Bill needs “access” while you do not?

Bill “works” for Obama while you work for your own and society’s survival?

Perhaps all of the above?

(Pure speculation of course … should be left to the bankers and Wall Street wonders.)

DW

GlenJo July 7th, 2012 at 4:22 pm
In response to Mauimom @ 235

Amen!

We have the VOTES!

Gitcheegumee July 7th, 2012 at 4:22 pm

Followup to Teddy @#251:

Deals: Goldman Sachs, the Waltons and a hotel money pit

Hyatt got a $1 billion investment from Goldman Sachs and WalMart’s Walton family in 2007.

By Allan Sloan
Tuesday, October 27, 2009

Goldman and the Waltons put $1 billion into Hyatt hotels in a private deal a little more than two years ago — at a price per share more than double that contemplated by Hyatt in its forthcoming initial public offering.Hyatt filings reveal that in August 2007 — near the peak of the commercial-property bubble, though the documents don’t mention that — Goldman, some of its investment clients and a Walton family investment company bought a combined $1 billion of stock from Hyatt. This money — $575 million from Goldman, $425 million from the Waltons — gave Hyatt the cash it needed to buy back $1.1 billion of stock from members of the Pritzker family.

It is clear that Goldman’s purchase of Hyatt stock is part of a longstanding Goldman-Pritzker relationship. Goldman stands to get an eight-figure fee as the lead underwriter of the Hyatt IPO, which makes its paper loss on Hyatt stock easier to bear.

The Pritzkers have sold most of Marmon Group, a sprawling conglomerate, to Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway, which is buying the rest in stages. And there’s Hyatt, which seems to be going public primarily to offer the Pritzkers a way to cash in their shares without the company having to raise money to redeem them.(excerpt)

“This offering lacks accountability to public shareholders, and we think that’s bad for all stakeholders, workers and investors alike,” Matt Walker, a union vice president, told me last week. (Yes, I looked at the Hyatt offering because Walker got me interested in it. No, this article isn’t the union’s take. It’s my own….Allan Sloan)

Allan Sloan – Deals: Goldman Sachs, the Waltons and a hotel money pitwww.washingtonpost.com › BusinessSimilar
Oct 27, 2009 – Goldman and the Waltons put $1 billion into Hyatt hotels in a private deal a little more than two years ago — at a price per share more

NOTE; This deal came down in 2207,worth noting the timeline.

Ready July 7th, 2012 at 4:22 pm
In response to BeachPopulist @ 256

I was appalled. Didn’t think it would be that bad. (no offense to the guests)

Bill Press went all the way back to 1968 to say he learned his lesson to vote for the Dem no matter what. Reminds me of Colbert saying of Bush, he believes the same thing on Wednesday he did on Monday, no matter what happened on Tuesday (9/11)

Bill Press Sure you have a choice. Don’t vote. Or vote for Romney. And you deserve what you get. I learned the hard way. I refused to vote for Humphrey in 1968,, and got stuck with Nixon. I’ll never make that mistake again,, and you shouldn’t either.

Surely after 30 years of being sold out you start to question your loyalty to a party that doesn’t return it.

greenwarrior July 7th, 2012 at 4:23 pm
In response to GlenJo @ 265

Er, we have Diebold.

Margaret July 7th, 2012 at 4:23 pm
In response to oldgold @ 262

Are you? Well I asked a question about the book at 111 for which, instead of a response I got accused of “whining” about the ACA. Are you angry with Mr. Press now?

PeasantParty July 7th, 2012 at 4:24 pm
In response to oldgold @ 262

I asked him several questions about his book. He answered one. Others asked him questions as well. The discussion did lean towards his book and bashing Obama.

GlenJo July 7th, 2012 at 4:24 pm

Thank You! You have my respect and my attention. I will be thinking about everything you have said.

greenwarrior July 7th, 2012 at 4:26 pm
In response to oldgold @ 262

Good of you to stay so long, given how you feel.

GlenJo July 7th, 2012 at 4:26 pm
In response to oldgold @ 262

Yes it did! Hopefully Obama staffers are LISTENING to the base voters TALKING!

Gitcheegumee July 7th, 2012 at 4:27 pm

Where’s the edit button?…

2207?? LOL More like 2007

BTW,my reply button doesn’t work.

DWBartoo July 7th, 2012 at 4:28 pm
In response to oldgold @ 262

Perhaps then, oldgold, in you “disappointment”, you have gained a small insight into the much larger and more salient “disappointment” of many of the rest of us in the intentional destruction of civil society and the well-being of so many human beings?

Which, I assure you, has NOT been “accomplished” very politely …

DW

greenwarrior July 7th, 2012 at 4:29 pm
In response to Margaret @ 258

A number of both of their comments weren’t all that far from “effing retards”.

cmaukonen July 7th, 2012 at 4:32 pm
In response to GlenJo @ 273

You forget who they believe the base voters are.

Are large contingent of minorities simply because he is a minority.

Are large contingent of educate elites who will vote for him because 1: hes is one of them and 2: they are doing very well with the way things are thankyouverymuch. And 3: because he HAS down right by them because he rescued the banks and therefore Wall Street which is where they get their money.

Margaret July 7th, 2012 at 4:37 pm
In response to greenwarrior @ 276

I honestly don’t care what Bill Press thinks about me for many reasons, chiefly that he has much less to do with paying my salary than I do with paying his. Also his low opinion of me will be worth it if he goes back with his tale of enormous disappointment among the base. It rankles sure but that’s what I get for missing demur class…

robertg July 7th, 2012 at 4:37 pm
In response to Arthur Goldwag @ 94

I volunteered for Obama 10 hours a week for about 4 months in 2008( that does not make me better than anyone),i’m totally disappointed with this guy rt now, i used to admire Obama.
And yes i would rather see Busho a third term that Obama 4 more years,in fact Obama is worse than Busho,Obama is the Bush of the so called democratic party, Obama = Pelosi = Boehner = Romney.

basilbeast July 7th, 2012 at 4:39 pm

But it won’t happen because liberal pundits scold us for withholding our vote; it will only happen by direct negotiation, possibly with our side chained to the White House fence.

I dunno Teddy. Do you think the DC police forces have enough batons to bash their fellow citizens with, enough pepper spray to douse them with poison, the DC jails large enough to contain all of us who would love to negotiate directly with our president?

To Misters Press and Goldwag, do you really think Mr. Obama deserves to win when the best argument for his re-election is “think how scary another Republican presidency will be”?

How many votes do you think Obama will find among the millions of homeowners who lost their homes from banking and lending fraud and were further cheated out of their chances to regain what they lost through Obama’s lender-friendly mortgage bills?

How many votes do you think he’ll find among the millions of people suffering from disease, illness and financial ruin through medical troubles , how many among the dead who might be still alive if health care reform had arrived earlier?

Yeah, I’m angry, and Obama has done hardly anything to assuage that. Which reminds me of Wikileaks Assange, and Bradley Manning and a host of liberal people and ideals that have been thrown under the bus by Obama.

And you accuse liberals of “eating their own” and fear “freelosders” getting healthcare.

The only eating of liberals that has occurred seems to me to be done by a democratic president.

Ready July 7th, 2012 at 4:41 pm
In response to robertg @ 279

I too volunteered for Obama in 2008.

I made endless phone calls and even went out of state a few times to canvas.

I am working much harder this time around for the defeat of Obama and Romney.

Now, it’s about survival.

OmAli July 7th, 2012 at 4:42 pm
In response to OmAli @ 92

Dang it . That was a reply to Mr.Goldwag #85

greenwarrior July 7th, 2012 at 4:45 pm
In response to OmAli @ 282

we knew that Om.

OmAli July 7th, 2012 at 4:54 pm
In response to greenwarrior @ 283

You were right on tonight, as usual. How’s your wrist?

jbjd July 7th, 2012 at 4:59 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 47

‘Tough talk’ from someone whose proverbial bread is buttered by the Democratic Party.

PRESS BILL PRESS to EARN his PRESS CREDENTIALS

greenwarrior July 7th, 2012 at 4:59 pm
In response to OmAli @ 284

thanks, we all were good. and, so well behaved.

the cast is doing it’s ever so excellent cactus impersonation.

DWBartoo July 7th, 2012 at 5:01 pm
In response to Margaret @ 278

It would be wonderful, Margaret, were the truth to get “back” to … whomever, but that does not fit the meme … it will be … “Yeah, just a small, ineffectual bunch of loud-mouthed, effin’ retards, there … nuthin’ to factor into our calculations, not a worry, nuthin’ to think about, but we should probably consider some ways to marginalize them and their incessant whining.”

DW

OmAli July 7th, 2012 at 5:11 pm

I thought we were, too.

I am filled with awe. Having scratched the skin off a nickel-sized area of my arm last night in response to an itchy mosquito bite I don’t know how you have maintained your sanity :)

greenwarrior July 7th, 2012 at 5:12 pm
In response to greenwarrior @ 286

its, no apostrophe.

greenwarrior July 7th, 2012 at 5:14 pm
In response to OmAli @ 288

oh noes, nasty mosquito.

and rumors of my sanity are vastly exaggerated.

OmAli July 7th, 2012 at 5:16 pm
In response to greenwarrior @ 289

We knew you knew that, greenie :)

(((gw)))

DWBartoo July 7th, 2012 at 5:18 pm
In response to greenwarrior @ 290

Such rumors are crazy, greenwarrior … “sanity” not being all it’s cracked up to be.

So there!

;~DW

greenwarrior July 7th, 2012 at 5:23 pm
In response to OmAli @ 291

hugs help with what sanity there is. when the doctor said that after the surgery i’d be in a cast for three MORE months, i commented that it might be better to avoid the surgery and just jump off a cliff. he thought i was kidding.

Ready July 7th, 2012 at 5:23 pm
In response to jettingby @ 250

If he wanted to cut the unemployment he would stop the H1-B visa program and send the million or so foreigners home. Americans could take those jobs.

At the dismal rate of job creation going on now in this country that would be about a year’s worth of jobs.

greenwarrior July 7th, 2012 at 5:24 pm
In response to DWBartoo @ 292

that’s just nuts!

karenjj2 July 7th, 2012 at 5:24 pm

a good reason to vote for rmoney would be that he probably couldn’t get TPP passed; “dem” obama passed bush’s “trade agreements” with columbia-s.korea-peru and clinton did bush sr’s NAFTA.

maybe my write-in will be “ross perot.”

DWBartoo July 7th, 2012 at 5:28 pm
In response to greenwarrior @ 295

Why yes, yes, I am, greenwarrior, sordid nutz …

I’ll try to do … butter.

;~DW

OmAli July 7th, 2012 at 5:31 pm
In response to DWBartoo @ 297

*snort*

I feel much better, now :)

Goodnight you guys, see you at Carurday, I hope.

Er, Caturday!

DWBartoo July 7th, 2012 at 5:33 pm
In response to greenwarrior @ 293

I hope, greenwarrior, that you may find true relief and healing.

I am amazed that you maintain and continue to share the humor and equanimity which are a “trademark” of your comments and insights.

Namaste

DW

greenwarrior July 7th, 2012 at 5:36 pm
In response to DWBartoo @ 299

thank you, dear one.

may we all be delivered from this nightmare that our country has become.

Solomon71 July 7th, 2012 at 5:44 pm
In response to Ready @ 19

Agreed for the truth in your statement.

Solomon71 July 7th, 2012 at 5:49 pm
In response to BeachPopulist @ 22

A very important issue Beachpopulist. And, that is the question that the modern-liberal mediapeople/journalists like the author of this book find very convenient and very necessary to ignore. For such journalists, what the right wing is doing to Obama’s image is so worrisome. But, how Obama has turned the liberal/progressive principles into a joke is something that such journalists are totally aloof to. And, it is for this reason why I would like to call shame on FDL for highlighting a book which is so aloof to the real problem at hand.

maa8722 July 7th, 2012 at 5:54 pm

“. . .what do you suppose the Hate Machine will do to prevent him from fulfilling any more of his mandate? . . .”

“. . .Will they find grounds to impeach him, as they did Clinton?. . .”

———————-

– They’ll try to pour sand in his gears anyway they can. The “how” will depend on who controls either/both House & Senate. Staying up late at night playing those war games will be job one for them. They’ll do little else.

– No. O isn’t doing anything impeachable, and the unfriendlies know that. It’s a dry well.

bolloxref July 7th, 2012 at 6:00 pm

I assume this Bill Press is an Obot worthy of Blackwaterdog, Daily Kult fame.

Well played.

Solomon71 July 7th, 2012 at 6:02 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 28

Dear Bill:

I appreciate your response and your stand on this. However, I must say that your show is far to easy on Obama. Your show keeps harping on how the Republicans have been bad for the middle class. But, your show has almost never highlighted how President Obama’s policies too have been bad for the middle class and for this world/planet that we call home. President Obama’s throwing away the public option in behind-the-door deals with the insurance firms? His extending the Bush tax cuts for the superwealthy thus converting them into the Obama tax cuts for the superwealthy? His not closing Gitmo? His extending the global wars that no one wants? His illegal drone attacks and killings. His signing into law the bill that American citizens can be detained indefinitely. His condoning the Wall Street goons who caused the economic meltdown of 2008. Just a few of issues out of a really long list.

I don’t believe that you have ever asked some or all of these tough questions of Obama with the same alacrity that you keep harping on the Republicans. And, what if instead of Obama, it were a Republican president who would have ordering drone attacks that were killing innocent people. I mean it is so sad to see people die in road accident. I recently saw a person die in road accident and it was so sad to see the dying person in pain for some time before she lost consciousness. I still can’t get that horrible memory out of my head. And, how can we condone a president who routinely orders drone attacks that kill innocent civilians in one of the poorest nations on earth???????

I don’t mean to be disrespectful either to President Obama or to you. But, President Obama has really shown some very very questionable judgment, and you are not holding the President’s feet to the fire.

tongorad July 7th, 2012 at 6:16 pm

The Liberal/Progressive angst over their corporatist President amounts to folks dreaming of a better boss. “Maybe if we say trade x and y, we’ll get z.”
Richard Wolff is correct: We don’t have a viable Left in this country because we don’t have an anti-capitalist movement.
Liberals and Progressives are as much to blame for our current predicament as the Conservatives are.
You cannot horse trade with Capital.

maa8722 July 7th, 2012 at 6:16 pm

I think the worst single thing O has done is letting ACA through without a public option. It pretty much trashed the law, and will be very hard to rectify.

ACA with a public option should have been the bare bones minimum.

bluedot12 July 7th, 2012 at 7:23 pm
In response to tongorad @ 306

Yes, we have all bought into the neo liberal bs and worship the free market.

elisemattu July 7th, 2012 at 7:35 pm
In response to Bill Press @ 147

I wasn’t expecting “perfection.” Far from it. Most adults know not all battles can be won. But when most battles are not even begun, when someone like Obama negotiates everything away in his continual appeasing efforts to be all “bipartisan,” the thinking person starts to suspect that this is all kabuki theater and that what is being given away was planned to be offered up from day one. I did expect him to fight for us. His appointments of everyone from Geithner to the Monsanto favorites (Mike Taylor, and Valsick) made me wonder if he was not at all who he claimed to be… only other explanation I could come up with was that someone held a gun to his head…

Did the good twin Obama campaign as a progressive in October 2008, at the rallies in WI that are still on YouTube, and the bad twin take over once elected?

I remember mid-Aug 2009, Jon Stewart showed the video of Obama telling a college student, how he, Obama, couldn’t get out and do or say anything about Health care reform, as that was something that Congress was dealing with. Obama declared that he had to make sure that he didn’t overstep the boundaries between the three branches of government.

But meanwhile, we all knew that Rahm was dealing with the Big Executives from Big Insurance Companies. And Rahm was dealing with Big Pharma. Some of those meetings took place down the street from the WH, as no one in the WH wanted the public to realize how sold out we the public were. That is why the ACA ended up being a win/win for the very companies that had required the American people to try and get reform to happen. And a very expensive proposition for the average person, who won’t even see the ability to have drugs imported from Canada.

As far as your voting record from 1968, do you really think life would have been different if Humphrey had gotten in? The American people have had fifty years of it being the Republicans turn to screw us over, and then the Democrats, and we haven’t really had anyone since the time of JFK who was willing to do what was needed to save the middle class.

I am referring to Kennedy’s Executive Order that would have terminated the Federal Reserve System. In 1963 he signed Executive Orders EO-11 and EO-110, returning to the government the responsibility to print money, taking that privilege away from the Federal Reserve System. Instead of that style of responsible behavior, all the Presidents since Nixon have allowed the “bubble economies” to exist – look how Greenspan was favored by both Clinton and George W Bush to “bubble up “certain industries, like the dot com and then housing bubbles.

You also mention how it is that Obama is winding the wars down. There is more than the wars winding down to consider – it’s the money. You need to to follow the money. When Calif. Governor Schwartzennegger asked for a 20 billion dollar “loan” from Geithner, the governor was admonished that it wasn’t possible as it would add to the deficit. Okay, so then why is it that over the next 13 months our government financed over 255 Billions of dollars to allow for “modernizing our military,” and to let our nation gift Israel and the UAE with expensive weapons systems?

Those 255 billions of dollars might have been used to pay down the deficits for every state now facing serious hard times, and allowed school teachers, social workers, fire fighters, police et al to keep their jobs. We can’t pay for our houses when this is the only thing happening – military spending. We can’t pay our student loans. We can’t pay for our food. Yet the military has not been hampered in its quest for unlimited monies. Between all the monies that have gone over to the Biggest Banks, much of which had to do with the “good buddy” to the President, Tim Geithner, and his manipulations while he was the NY Fed chairman, amounting to trillions of dollars, and all the money that is going to the military. This military spending occurs even as our nation’s military is worth more than the next 23 nations combined, one has to wonder what will become of this nation. It seems to be owned lock stock and barrel by the Big Finance People, the Big Military interests, Big Nuke energy, Big Oil, Big Insurers and they won’t rest until they have everything. With all the Two Party elected people too damn “owned” by those industries to be able to care about us, except for every four years when they trot out their platitudes.

bluedot12 July 7th, 2012 at 7:58 pm
In response to elisemattu @ 309

When it comes to money things I actually don’t believe most pols or Presidents understand how it works. And now there are generations of so called economists like Summers, Geithner, et al to advise presidents and they are nearly universally wrong. You see these guys really believe deficits and debt are bad things. What a waste of educational resources. Greenspan figured it out – - too late.

juliania July 7th, 2012 at 7:59 pm
In response to maa8722 @ 307

No, the worst thing Obama has done is put this country into the hands of the corporate war machine, committing war crimes in the process.

The reason that liberals in this country did not vote for Humphrey was that he embraced the Johnson war machine in Vietnam and we were SO sick of that bloody, unjust war. How could anyone with a moral conscience vote for Humphrey on the stand he took then? ( We would have elected Bobby Kennedy in a landslide.) Nixon ended his days having been ingloriously removed from the presidency. That was fitting.

Thank you, everyone. I shall go to bed snuggling my hard core conservative duckie. (I’m still waiting for rain, but at least it is much cooler – I’ll send that east in a little bit.)

DWBartoo July 7th, 2012 at 8:08 pm
In response to elisemattu @ 309

Superb comment, elisemattu.

DW

yellowsnapdragon July 7th, 2012 at 8:18 pm

Wow. You peeps were very well behaved and made all necessary arguments.

I would have liked to ask Mr Press why establishment dems and the adminstration seem more interested in deliberately stirring our anger than with harnessing our energy to bring progressive change? What is gained by alienating us?

DWBartoo July 7th, 2012 at 8:18 pm
In response to juliania @ 311

Absolutely correct about Humphrey, juliania, as well as very well said … and Bill Press should be, very seriously, taken to task on the deceit inherent in, and the lack of moral conscience implied in, his glib, completely partisan, virtually knee-jerk pronouncement.

DW

Kelly Canfield July 7th, 2012 at 8:34 pm

What is missing, or at least mostly overlooked in this discussion, with the exception of a handful of the 300+ comments? The substance of the book.

Too bad it came to contemporary presidential political back-and-forths instead of about the hegemony of the Hate Machine.

Because for sure, if Jill Stein or Rocky Anderson became president, who do you think the Hate Machine would be aimed at immediately post election?

And the discourse today didn’t advance one inch about how that Hate Machine works, nor any ideas about how to counter it, with the exception of Spocko’s observations.

The Hate Machine is every bit a problem, that by the way will exist tomorrow and beyond the election, that matters as much as any Civil Liberties violations and War crap, because it’s made from the same fabric that is strangling the US; Lies, Greed and Hate.

Ready July 7th, 2012 at 8:43 pm

How can he enlighten us on how the Hate Machine works when he can’t even admit to what Obama has been doing for the past 3 and 1/2 years?

airway2000 July 7th, 2012 at 9:15 pm

Although I don’t label myself as a “progressive”,I enjoy this site because the individuals here can think for themselves. Not the usual Democrat vs. Republican BS.Please pick more thoughtful books for consideration and not propaganda. This is more appropriate for the Daily Kos,or MSNBC.I mean this respectfully.

defogger July 7th, 2012 at 11:42 pm

Kelly,don’t you think Press and the dems would be part of the hate machine attacking Jill and Rocky ?

perrylogan July 8th, 2012 at 3:37 am

The hatred leveled against Obama is nothing compared to that directed against Bill Clinton and his family. Let me know when they start accusing the Obamas of mass murder.

Watt4Bob July 8th, 2012 at 6:43 am

The ‘hate machine’ is only one part of the right-wing Wurlitzer, and focusing on that part has a way of narrowing our perception of not only the true scope of the damage being done, but the ultimate purpose of the Wurlitzer itself.

Promoting hatred of Obama is but a small part of a much larger mechanism whose purpose is control.

I’m afraid that stirring up the democratic base about the hate-Obama campaign has the same myopia-inducing effect as stirring up the republican base about the deficit.

The real story that needs to be dragged from the shadows is the way that the American media has been disappeared, and replaced with the present mechanism of mind-numbing, thought prevention.

DWBartoo July 8th, 2012 at 8:10 am
In response to Watt4Bob @ 320

Again, I urge everyone to take a wee moment and look at the definition of “deception” at Wikipedia, for that is the intent and purpose of the entire political class, of which the media is (are) a part. It has to do with the destruction of trust.

Thank you, Watt4Bob, for your superb contribution to the conversation AND understanding with that comment.

DW

elisemattu July 8th, 2012 at 12:14 pm
In response to greenwarrior @ 268

Yep, we do have Diebold. And as someone who campaigned with the best of the best of election activists, Andy Stephenson, I can say that the Democratic Party Leadership was very eager to turn way from doing anything at all about the fact that the electronic voting machinery counts the votes.

elisemattu July 8th, 2012 at 12:19 pm
In response to OmAli @ 83

Same here.

Thanks for telling him how it is. I suspect that everyone who is “enthused” about how Obama care is better than “nothing” doesn’t realize that for the average working slob in America, “nothing’ is all we got. Like others point out, to get help via subsidies, you first must pay the premiums, and then a year later, you will be reimbursed. I have no way to pay $ 1,100 a month, unless spouse and myself forego housing and live in our van. Then there are deductibles and co-pays, which would total an additional 3K a year. (And that $ 1,100 a mo is the amount it costs if I take advantage of the Calif state exchange program.)

And extending MediCare/medicaid to everyone, as is the case here in California, doesn’t mean much either – so many doctors do not work with MediCare or MediCaid, as the clinics are being underpaid and forced to have one staffer work full time on the claims. What good is having an insurance policy no one will take? Again, you end up in ER for major problems that would have been minor had you been able to see a doctor.

micki July 8th, 2012 at 5:20 pm

Maybe it’s already been linked here, but did any of you see THIS BLOG BY ARTHUR GOLDWAG ABOUT HIS ‘SCARY’ EXPERIENCE HERE AT FDL BOOK SALON

Holy smokes.

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