Welcome Will Bunch (Attytood) and Host Lindsay Beyerstein (Sidney Hillman Foundation/In These Times)

[As a courtesy to our guests, please keep comments to the book and be respectful of dissenting opinions. Please take other conversations to a previous thread. - bev]

October 1, 2011: The Battle of the Brooklyn Bridge

Host, Lindsay Beyerstein:

The Battle of the Brooklyn Bridge tells the story of a pivotal event in the history of Occupy Wall Street. On Oct. 1, hundreds of protesters marched from occupied Zuccotti Park towards the Brooklyn Bridge. The official plan was to have a picnic on the other side of the river.

The police allowed the protesters to surge onto the bridge and then proceeded to corral them in nets and arrest them by the hundreds.

Bunch tells the story of the bridge through the eyes of several vividly drawn characters: A 19-year-old veteran street protester with working class roots and a genius for escaping arrest; a 69-year-old retired lawyer who showed up on impulse after being moved by a play about the final day of Martin Luther King’s life; a painfully shy theater tech who found the movement online; a self-styled branding expert/saxophonist; and a 24-year-old Jewish immigrant from the former Soviet Union, drowning in student debt.

Bunch paints a colorful picture of life in occupied Zuccotti Park, a thriving community with a food distribution program, a library, and a first aid center. Tents are against park rules, so residents huddle together in sleeping bags nicknamed “soggy burritos.”

The Brooklyn Bridge held great symbolic and tactical importance for Occupy Wall Street. By marching to Brooklyn, OWS hoped to establish a toehold in New York’s most populous borough, which is home to a more ethnically and socioeconomically diverse population than Lower Manhattan. The bridge itself is a icon of freedom and a source of civic pride. To walk across that bridge in peaceful protest is a powerfully symbolic act.

Most of the marchers never reached Brooklyn, but the mass arrests on the bridge made the front pages of papers around the country. The experience of mass arrest galvanized casual supporters into hardcore activists.

Bunch even solves the mystery of the arrest of the young woman in the Invader Zim hat, who became the subject of a famous photograph. Suffice it to say that her arrest came about as a result of some tactically brilliant 21st century parenting.

Will Bunch is a Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter, a senior writer for the Philadelphia Daily News and blogger at Attytood, a fellow at Media Matters for America, and the author of several books.

We are honored to have him with us today to discuss his latest book, available as a Kindle Single through Amazon.com. It is the first book to be written about the Occupy Wall Street movement.

78 Responses to “FDL Book Salon Welcomes Will Bunch, October 1, 2011: The Battle of the Brooklyn Bridge”

BevW October 27th, 2011 at 11:31 am

Will, Lindsay, Welcome back to the Lake.

Lindsay, Thank you for Hosting today’s Book Salon.

Lindsay Beyerstein October 27th, 2011 at 11:32 am

Welcome to the FDL Book Salon on Will Bunch’s new book “The Battle for the Brooklyn Bridge.”

Will, can start by describing the events that led up to the Oct. 1 march on the Brooklyn Bridge?

Lindsay Beyerstein October 27th, 2011 at 11:33 am
In response to BevW @ 1

Great to be here, Bev.

Lindsay Beyerstein October 27th, 2011 at 11:36 am

Will will be with us shortly. He’s sorting out a technical glitch. Thanks for your patience.

BevW October 27th, 2011 at 11:37 am

Lindsay, what have you seen of the OWS?

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 11:37 am

I’m here, ask away

Lindsay Beyerstein October 27th, 2011 at 11:39 am

I’ve been down to OWS four or five times since its inception and I covered the big labor that took place earlier this month. I was there at 6am when the city announced that the protesters wouldn’t be evicted for “cleaning” after all.

BevW October 27th, 2011 at 11:39 am
In response to Will Bunch @ 6

Comment #2 – Will, can start by describing the events that led up to the Oct. 1 march on the Brooklyn Bridge?

Lindsay Beyerstein October 27th, 2011 at 11:39 am
In response to Will Bunch @ 6

Great! Can you say a bit about the origins of the Occupy Wall Street movement?

BevW October 27th, 2011 at 11:40 am

As a technical note, there is a “Reply” button in the lower right hand of each comment. Pressing the “Reply” will pre-fill the commenter name and number you are replying to and helps for everyone in following the conversation.

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 11:40 am

First of all, thanks so much Lindsay for doing this.
The Battle of the Brooklyn Bridge was a real turning point for the protest — it was completely ignored by the media in week 1, and got some notice in Week 2 because of the “Tony Baloney” pepper spray incident, but was really at a make-or-break point. The march across the Brooklyn Bridge aimed to raise community awareness of the Occupy Wall Street movement outside of Lower Manhattan. The NYPD had other ideas!

EdwardTeller October 27th, 2011 at 11:40 am

Amazed to see this book out so soon. Can’t wait to read it. Wish I could stay, but have to teach and rehearse all day. I’ll catch up on the comments this evening.

Welcome back to firedoglake, Lindsay.

Edward Teller – Philip Munger

Lindsay Beyerstein October 27th, 2011 at 11:41 am
In response to Will Bunch @ 11

What made the Brooklyn Bridge such an attractive symbolic destination for the Occupy Wall Street protesters?

ThingsComeUndone October 27th, 2011 at 11:42 am

Maybe we can shame to police to stop them from arresting peaceful protesters find their names on the arrest reports google them get a picture put it on a web site along with activists reports of them abusing people.
The last thing a single cop wants is for a girl to google his name and find out he likes to rough people up, if he roughs up women then thats worse.
About half of all marriages end in divorce the threat of public shame forever that their kids and grand kids can read about might get the police to back off.
Also any police with political ambitions will not want to carry out these orders.

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 11:42 am

One of the reasons I wrote this e-book was to try to take people who couldn’t get to Zuccotti inside the movement and show how — while it was surely started by a vanguard of revolutionary minded people — its backbone is really everyday citizens.

DWBartoo October 27th, 2011 at 11:42 am

Thank you for joining us, Will, and you, Landsay, for hosting this Book Salon.

Will, I hope this is not too far off topic, I note that you are “a senior writer” at the Philadelphia Dialy News, and wonder if your coverage of OWS might signal a change in the awareness of those who work for the media, generally, away from simple stenography, of repeating what authority wishes …. and moving toward seeking in-depth understanding of what is actually occurring within society, and the increasing, and I think, deliberate incivility of the ruling classes toward the majority of human beings, not simply in America, but throughout the world?

DW

Lindsay Beyerstein October 27th, 2011 at 11:43 am
In response to Will Bunch @ 15

What role did the Vancouver-based culture-jamming AdBusters magazine have in the genesis of Occupy Wall Street?

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 11:43 am

TCU, there are many ways to deal with police misconduct. It hasn’t received the attention that it should, but a very good lawyer from DC named Carl Messineo has filed a class-action lawsuit against the NYPD for what happened on the bridge — anyone who was arrested should look into it.

ThingsComeUndone October 27th, 2011 at 11:46 am

By marching to Brooklyn, OWS hoped to establish a toehold in New York’s most populous borough, which is home to a more ethnically and socioeconomically diverse population than Lower Manhattan

Any chance they will try again? Any attempts to coordinate with local Lefties and churches in Brooklyn? I think the police are scared of what happens if the protests get more support among the poor and the dark.
We should do all we can to exploit their fears and make them real.

Teddy Partridge October 27th, 2011 at 11:51 am

Hi Will, hi Lindsay.

Thanks for writing this book. Do you plan to continue producing books like this one about the #Occupy movement? Have you any plans to go to Oakland? It seems like it has produced the next critical turning point with the police assault via flash-bang on Scott Olsen, Iraq veteran.

JohnJ October 27th, 2011 at 11:51 am

My fear is for the future of this movement.

Do you see any mechanism within OWS to deal with both the inevitable loony, and even more inevitable violent agitation by infiltrators?

My thought is zero tolerance for violent talk or actions within the protest.

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 11:52 am

I hope so. I think one way for the OWS movement to grow is to establish better connections to communities of color — not to say that such ties don’t exist but they could be much stronger. Groups like the Al Sharpton network seem to go off and do their own marches — don’t understand why things can’t be more unified!

Lindsay Beyerstein October 27th, 2011 at 11:52 am

Will, you note in the book that there was some confusion among the marchers as to the goal of the march. Some people thought it was occupying the bridge by civil disobedience and others just wanted to get to Brooklyn for the teach-in. How did this confusion arise?

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 11:54 am
In response to JohnJ @ 21

I think the movement has already been a success in 2 ways — changing the political conversation to things it should be about, like unemployment and student debt, and also starting a conversation about free speech and freedom of assembly in America. Having done that, there probably should be a movement toward more focused action, but that maybe should come out of a different (but related) group than OWS.

Lindsay Beyerstein October 27th, 2011 at 11:54 am
In response to Will Bunch @ 22

Recently, some OWS protesters went up to Harlem to protest with activists opposed to racially discriminatory stop-and-frisk. Is this a step in the right direction, towards a more unified movement?

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 11:57 am

Lindsay, maybe confusion isn’t the right word. I think we’re seeing this at other protests — some people want to risk confrontation and arrest, and some don’t. The Brooklyn Bridge march had elements of both — some people chanted “Take the bridge, take the bridge!” knowing that it’s illegal to block traffic. But the mass of marchers who went on the bridge thought it was OK to do so — many because they saw police seemingly lead the march onto the bridge. Which they in fact did — it is captured very clearly on video.

Lindsay Beyerstein October 27th, 2011 at 11:57 am

What has been the role of the hacker collective Anonymous in Occupy Wall Street?

Lindsay Beyerstein October 27th, 2011 at 11:58 am
In response to Will Bunch @ 26

You’ve described the events on the bridge as the Rashomon of Occupy Wall Street. What do you mean by that?

Teddy Partridge October 27th, 2011 at 11:59 am

Does anyone know if Barack Obama’s recent half-hearted student debt “reform” — which is reported to save about five dollars a month for the average borrower — has reached #OWS? Is there any reaction from the Occupiers to today’s news that the answer to Debt Jubilee demands is a coupla cups of coffee?

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 11:59 am

Teddy, I was just thinking this morning that something should be written about Scott, maybe for a major magazine. I’d love to do it — on the other hand, I’ve used up all my days off here at the newspaper in Philadelphia. I’d also love to write a traditional book about OWS, although right this second I’m emotionally exhausted from writing this.

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 12:01 pm
In response to DWBartoo @ 16

DWB, I wrote a longer response that somehow got eaten by my computer — but the short answer is the PDN is a VERY unusual corporate-owned newspaper, generally liberal and with different ideas about point of view and “objectivity” than pretty much every other paper in America. So there’s no trend…sigh.

Teddy Partridge October 27th, 2011 at 12:01 pm
In response to Will Bunch @ 26

Has there been any reaction from NYC public officials, at any level, to the clear videos showing NYPD guide the marchers onto the bridge? Will more white-shirts face a haircut on vacation time like pepper-sprayer Tony Baloney?

ThingsComeUndone October 27th, 2011 at 12:05 pm

Lawsuits against the police are paid for by the tax payers not police salaries or personal assets, the police are rarely prosecuted when you try and deter crime in this case police crime current criminal theory suggests punishment must be both swift, certain and it must hurt.
As soon as a protester gets charged the arresting officer’s name on the police report should be put on the net along with his or her picture if we can find it no personal information like address but the police dept they work out of seems fair game.
Then we add the arrested protester’s side of the story on the net. This we make the hurt personal and forever.
The police only beat people up who are peaceful because there are no consequences for them if they do so.
So lets give them consequences with a bully you must punch him in the nose to get him to back down all they understand is force.
Since your peaceful punching won’t work so embarrass them.

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 12:05 pm

Heh, well as some people know, Rashomon is the famouus Japanese (Kurasawa..sp?) movie about a crime which shows the very different perspective/recollection of the different players. That gets to your earlier question and my earlier answer — whether the move by 1000 or so people to march on the Brooklyn-bound roadway was an act of civil disobedience or an NYPD trap — to “kettle” the marchers and break the spirit of OWS — depends on where you were in the march and what you saw. My reporting shows there was almost certainly an element of entrapment by the NYPD.

DWBartoo October 27th, 2011 at 12:06 pm
In response to Will Bunch @ 31

I’m having computer problems as well, Will, and although I knew the PDN was more-”liberal” than most media, I admit that I was … hoping.

Thank you for your response, hopefully mine will get through …

DW

Lindsay Beyerstein October 27th, 2011 at 12:07 pm
In response to Will Bunch @ 34

Can you describe the tactic of kettling and the role it plays in policing demonstrations?

whfrat October 27th, 2011 at 12:07 pm

Is there a Scott Olsen Legal defence fund yet? Via the Alameda County Sherrif’s dept Cities have a “Mutual Aid Agreement.” According to the Mayor of Berkeley’s office 12 Berkeley police officers particpated in traffic control. I told them I support the City of Berkeley being sued for having been invloved and hope that they will reconsider choosing to be involved in the future.

In any case, let’s support Scott and make sure all officers invloved are held accountable.

lastly, please sign this petition. i know it is moveon but I am not aware of any other online petition to use. If you do please tell me. You can unsub from MoveOn right after you support the petition.
Every little bit helps! Thank you

http://signon.org/sign/re-call-oakland-mayor

Scarecrow October 27th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

welcome Will and Lindsay. Where is this thing going. Can we see a clear trend, beyond changing the conversation? What can we expect next, and hw can we protect it from the counter attack?

ThingsComeUndone October 27th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

The Mclaughlin Group this weekend said that the WallStreet Protesters wanted all student loans forgiven I am not sure I can trust their facts on anything but if what they reported was true then Obama’s plan like most Obama plans seems to be to small by half to get the job done or please people.

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

TCU, I think you have to think through the pros and cons of the strategy. When Anonymous posted personal info about “Tony Baloney” and his family online, I think that alienated some folks right when people were sitting on the fence about OWS. Just my opinion. The movement needs the support of exactly the kind of person who might be offended by such a tactic.

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 12:10 pm
In response to whfrat @ 37

Thanks — we all need to rally behind Scott and do what we can for him and about the situation.

ThingsComeUndone October 27th, 2011 at 12:12 pm

How do the police feel about being ordered to defend bankers who stole money, steal people’s home’s without clear title and instead of arresting them are being asked to arrest people who want the bankers brought to justice?
Are their no police officers fighting illegal fore closers of their own?

Lindsay Beyerstein October 27th, 2011 at 12:15 pm

Will notes in the book that the rank-and-file officers were embroiled in a pension dispute with City Hall around the time the occupation began.

BevW October 27th, 2011 at 12:16 pm

Will, Lindsay, your thoughts –
How long can all these protests go on, videos, reports, police brutality, injuries – and President Obama has not taken a stand on one side or the other.

Reminds me of the late 60s protests.

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 12:17 pm
In response to Scarecrow @ 38

Scarecrow, I think the resilency of the movement will surprise a lot of people (allow this may be one case where warmer winter temperatures via global warming would help….just kidding). As I write in “The Battle of the Brooklyn Bridge,” the occupation itself is the message, and I think it can continue. It’s already changed the conversation and forced better-than-nothing action from Obama on foreclosures and student loans — what will be interesting is whether it has any impact on 2012 elections — and whether it wants to. Would OWS challenge blue dog dems on a primary, in the Tea Party fashion?

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 12:18 pm

That’s right — the Bloomberg admin was working to strip a pension benefit worth $12,000 from rank-and-file NYPD. Clearly, some of the lower ranking “blue shirts” have sympathy for the movement — whether any real links can be forged is a challenge for OWS.

Lindsay Beyerstein October 27th, 2011 at 12:18 pm
In response to BevW @ 44

I was encouraged to hear that Obama had kind of vaguely acknowledged the OWS movement and expressed some general sympathy with the frustrations of protesters. Baby steps, baby steps.

ThingsComeUndone October 27th, 2011 at 12:19 pm
In response to Will Bunch @ 40

We don’t publish home addresses, phone numbers etc besides the Right Wing Media was looking for an excuse to go nuts Michelle Malkin drove a person to suicide by publishing their personal information online the Right and the Media said nothing.
We will never get nice fair press coverage no matter what we do. But we can show them we can hit back and if the police or media whine we point out all the times they leaked stuff or made up stuff about police cases.
Its only when we show we will use our power do the Authoritarians listen. Peaceful Protest only convinces rational people and our ruling class are a bunch of inbred Psychopaths.

ThingsComeUndone October 27th, 2011 at 12:21 pm

That is the kind of thing we need to Exploit:) It sure would be funny watching police attack protesters carrying signs WallStreet stole police pensions:)

Teddy Partridge October 27th, 2011 at 12:22 pm

Will, you have some pretty wackadoo commenters outta Philly. How have the regular RWNJob folks reacted to your being embedded in #OWS and writing a book about the Brooklyn Bridge action? Have there been any appeals to your editors or management for taking time off? Has anyone proposed any sanctions or public flogging?

Seriously, there are some funny people over there. “Fanemies” I guess you’d call them.

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 12:22 pm
In response to BevW @ 44

Yes, it reminds me of late 60s protests, too, and the prime era of the protests lasted more than three years, from 1967 through 1970. This has been going on for barely five weeks — there could be many twists and turns. A similarity is that in both eras the 2 parties had abandoned the people. You had Dems in the WH — LBJ and now Obama. I think Obama would help himself by going to Zuccotti Park unannounced, not making a speech but just listening to people. I think that would cause his re-election — but I would be shocked if he did that.

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 12:23 pm

There’s been some of that — protesters chanting at the cops, “Come join us!”

Lindsay Beyerstein October 27th, 2011 at 12:24 pm

I don’t buy the argument that violence is a more powerful strategy than non-violence. If you’re up against an enemy that is highly proficient at violence, it’s tactically stupid to respond with violence because you will get your ass kicked and lose your moral authority in the process. The real power is in peaceful protest, maybe someday a general strike–simply refusing to work to generate profits for the people in charge. That’s radical but it’s not violent.

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 12:25 pm

FoxNews.com did an “expose” of me by Jana Winter, exact same hack who tried to write this week that OWS was created by “ACORN.” It didn’t have any impact on my editors. They love the controversy.

Lindsay Beyerstein October 27th, 2011 at 12:28 pm
In response to Will Bunch @ 51

Obama over the human mic would really be something. But I doubt it’s going to happen. I could see him speaking at a rally linked to Occupy Wall Street, like the union leaders did during the big labor march. Everyone walked from Zuccotti Park to a nearby plaza where they had a permit for an assembly with amplification, and then marched back to the park when the rally was over.

DWBartoo October 27th, 2011 at 12:30 pm

Very well said, Lindsay.

Absolutely correct … and the only creditable way to affect meaningful and enduring change in society, for it models reasonable, humane, and responsible behavior.

DW

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 12:30 pm

Well, that would be more realistic, I guess. I think so far the movement has done a good job at working with labor and other progressive groups but not getting taken over, which is exactly what happened to some extent with the Tea Party and the Koch Bros./ Americans for Prosperity.

Lindsay Beyerstein October 27th, 2011 at 12:33 pm
In response to Will Bunch @ 57

Was there ever a grassroots Tea Party movement to coopt? It seemed to me like it was Astroturfed from the beginning, but eventually grew into a more grassroots thing under the careful supervision of Americans For Prosperity.

Lindsay Beyerstein October 27th, 2011 at 12:35 pm

Americans for Prosperity was very good at harnessing popular outrage and directing it towards electoral politics.

Could OWS pull off a similar feat? Would OWS be interested in doing that?

Scarecrow October 27th, 2011 at 12:37 pm

Will, Lindsay, do yu see the Fox and right wing demonization as a sign they think OWS is a real threat, or just their normal opposition to anything they can’t grasp?

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 12:37 pm

Lindsay, I’m just getting to your earlier question about “kettling” — it’s a police tactic in which marchers or protesters are surrounded on all sides by the cops (In NY, they use the now famous orange netting) and detained in a confined space, sometimes ultimately arrested and sometimes not. Either way, it makes protesting — a supposedly legal activity protected by the Bill of Rights — an uncomfortable acivity and also associates it with lawbreaking. That may not matter to some experienced protesters, but it does matter to some regular folks who might be sitting on the fence. The use of kettling has become widespread since the unrest at the 1999 WTO protests and accelerated (as so many things did) with 9/11.

Scarecrow October 27th, 2011 at 12:39 pm

Good questions, and would such a tactic be something to be welcomed?

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 12:40 pm

That’s a great unanswered question. I could see cases where OWS supporters could benefit from challenging established politicians. Even the congressman here in Center City Philadelphia, the city party boss Bob Brady, would benefit from a primary challenge, IMHO. But I find it hard to imagine OWS working with an Americans for Prosperity styled group.

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 12:42 pm
In response to Scarecrow @ 60

Defintely, the whole urine-soaked smelly hippies trope has emerged because Fox and the right-wing radio talkers (and the right wing) are terrified by this movement — real middle-class populism instead of the pseudo brand that they sell. They are trying to make regular middle class citizens think twice about supporting the movement.

Lindsay Beyerstein October 27th, 2011 at 12:42 pm
In response to Will Bunch @ 63

What do you think the onset of winter will mean for the protesters in Zuccotti Park? Is there a risk that the occupation will peter out when the weather gets nasty?

Lindsay Beyerstein October 27th, 2011 at 12:48 pm

This week, Elizabeth Warren said that she laid the intellectual foundations for Occupy Wall Street (which is true). Do you think Warren might be able to tap into the OWS energy for her senate campaign?

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 12:49 pm

Winter in much of the US is not for the faint of heart — some protesters will surely drop off. If the movement can make it through the winter, that will be a remarkable test of its mettle. It would be interesting to see thousands of OWS supporters marching on the Democratic convention in Charlotte — shades of 1968! Meanwhile, my sense is that the Tea Party movement (which I wrote a 2010 book about called “The Backlash”) is really waning — I think that’s because Fox News in particular pulled the plug to some degree. You won’t see that with this movement.

DWBartoo October 27th, 2011 at 12:50 pm
In response to Will Bunch @ 64

In order for the political right to make the middle class “think twice”, the political right shall have to either frighten the middle class or cause them to perceive the OWS movement as somehow not representative of the interests of the middle class … both actions must depend upon fabrication and misdirection, upon false argument.

It is my hope that since 2000, “the people” have seen a number of these false arguments lead to war and the economic destruction of society and may no longer easily be fooled …

One wonders, Will, just how effective such false argument can be when the evidence of common experience confirms what OWS is saying and supporting?

DW

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 12:51 pm

You bet (about Elizabeth Warren). I think you’ll see an enthusiam level that will be MUCH greater for her campaign than there will be for the Obama re-election effort. It would be interesting to see if she would be someone that the movement could groom for 2016, when I think the real push to take the country back will come to a head. Of course she has to beat Scott Brown first.

BevW October 27th, 2011 at 12:53 pm

As we come to the end of this Special Book Salon,

Will, Thank you for writing this book and for stopping by the Lake to discuss your book and the OWS.

Lindsay, Thank you for Hosting this lively Book Salon.

Everyone, if you would like more information:

Will’s website and book

Lindsay’s website
Sidney Hillman Foundation/In These Times

Thanks all, have a great afternoon.

Saturday – Glenn Greenwald / With Liberty and Justice for Some: How the Law Is Used to Destroy Equality and Protect the Powerful

Lindsay Beyerstein October 27th, 2011 at 12:53 pm
In response to Will Bunch @ 69

I’m thinking that volunteering for Elizabeth Warren is going to seem like a lot more fun that sleeping in a park. She should rent a large lot and invest in tents.

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 12:54 pm
In response to DWBartoo @ 68

You’re absoluetely right, DW — look at the right wing reporting to its usual bag of tricks to kill this movement, and it’s not working. That’s because three years into this economic calamity, they see and understand the massive wealth gap in this country, and how they’ve been scammed on student loans, mortgages, etc. So middle class people aren’t being scared by the usual boogymen.

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 12:56 pm
In response to BevW @ 70

I’m looking forward to reading Glenn’s chat and his book, it sounds incredible. I’ll be here for a few more minutes and I’ll also check back in tonight and answer any late questions — I realize that a lot of people had to work, etc.

DWBartoo October 27th, 2011 at 12:56 pm
In response to Will Bunch @ 69

Then you dismiss Warren’s contention that “terrorism” is “problem, number one”, as mere political bombast, Will?

I wonder.

Frankly, I am rather well-convinced that no one in the Democratic Party is willing to forego the gravy-train of lobbyist monies and lucrative corporate financing of politics.

I am willing to be happily surprised, however, I am not certain that Elizabeth Warren is as deep and broad of understanding as you and I might wish.

DW

Will Bunch October 27th, 2011 at 12:58 pm
In response to DWBartoo @ 74

Well, let’s give her a chance…you have a better idea? :-)

DWBartoo October 27th, 2011 at 12:59 pm

Thank you, Will and Lindsay, and you, as well, Bev, for a most-excelleant Book Salon.

DW

DWBartoo October 27th, 2011 at 1:08 pm
In response to Will Bunch @ 75

I would not mind in the slightest, Will, were someone like yourself to be willing to put themselves forward.

Frankly, my concern is that Warren does not fully understand either the truly brutal nature of those in power and the consequences which will continue to rain down (the “trickle” will likely become a torrent) on the lower and middle classes, nor do I imagine that Warren can withstand the means that will be used in attempting to co-opt her.

It is not merely the co-opting of OWS that we must concern ourselves with, as we have seen.

Unless Warren soon, openly and clearly, distances herslf from Barack Obama, and his willful destruction of the Rule of Law, then we may fairly assume that she does NOT understand the deeper issues of fundamental principle which MUST be reinstated … frankly, I am convinced that this “system” is too-corrupt to be saved, nor should it, as, unless there is particiapatory democracy, as demonstrated by OWS, then there will be no meaningful change or reasonable possibility thereof.

DW

Teddy Partridge October 27th, 2011 at 1:36 pm

Thank you very much, Will and Lindsay.
As usual, thanks to Bev for a remarkable pairing of guest & host!

Swell comments. FDL Book Salon is the best book chat on the web, hands down.

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