Good afternoon. Knock, knock, is this thing on?

Yes, it is….

Hi Shannyn and Jeanne…

Waiting for Bev, I think. :)

Thanks to Jeanne and RevBev for inviting me to my very first book salon hosting!

Welcome Washsox

I’m ready to go if you are! Take it away, Shannyn!

Fantastic, Jeanne. I’ve been lucky enough to see part of the process of this book, but would like you to share a bit about how you came to be on a project with Frank Bailey and Ken Morris.

I would like to know what discussion there was among the authors that resulted in the inclusion of a picture of Bristol with infant Trig. It’s an interesting choice, given the text of the book follows the Palin claim that rumors about Bristol being pregnant (before the pregnancy with Tripp) and rumors that Trig was Bristol’s were “idiotic”. So, why put that picture in when there were others such as the one Frank says he has of Todd holding the newborn?

Jeanne, Shannyn, Welecome to the Lake again.

I know Jeanne is probably typing a response to my question. NYNY, you may not like your answer, but we’ll see if Jeanne is able to give you an answer.

Interesting story, actually. After Frank’s first pair of co-authors abandoned the project, I connected Ken and Frank through a mutual friend. Ken is a brilliant writer and Frank needed one. Then Ken wanted a teammate with some Alaska perspective on things, and I agreed to work on it if Frank was OK with that. Never imagined he’d want to work with a “liberal blogger” but we met and really hit it off.

We have some common views about governance and ethics, and what elected officials should be. He and his wife met with me over coffee, and the rest is history.

Hi Shannyn, Jeanne. I was listening to you the last 1/2 hour on KOAN on Thursday, when someone named Mark called in. He seemed fairly antagonistic. Was that Mark Halperin?

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There were several pictures of Trig. Frank was very involved with the Palins during that time. There’s also a picture of Frank’s son with Trig, Sarah with Trig, etc.

What I loved about the book was that you did not attempt to throw haymakers. The relentless supply of tiny, petty atrocities was more compelling

Ha! I doubt it, Halperin doesn’t seem too interested in facts.

Ha! No I don’t think it was Mark Halperin. The caller Mark is fairly antagonistic, but I enjoy answering his questions. He just stacks them up so fast I don’t have a chance to answer. But I don’t mind answering questions from anyone.

Oh, and to further answer your question, the publisher/editors had final say about what pictures were included in the book. We had hundreds and they chose the ones they liked best.

Jeanne, what is the biggest surprise to you coming out of this book?

It’s like the best way to really know someone is to live with them. I think that character reveals itself over time. Frank was around for years, so it wasn’t just some extraordinary circumstance that put Sarah at her worst. It’s a pattern of behavior over a LONG period of time. I think that makes the most compelling psychological story… and political story.

Hi from Virginia!

I just finished your book and found it fascinating. I’m assuming that Jeanne, in agreeing to work on this book with Frank, came to believe that he was truly remorseful for some of his behaviors when working for SP. Is that a correct assumption? And if so, what convinced you of that? Thanks in advance:)

Jeanne,

I got the sense that if SP called Frank today and apologized in just the right way, he would be back working for her in a heartbeat. Do you agree?

I think it was more a confirmation of what I suspected, or feared about her. I was surprised though at the illegal coordination with the Republican Governor’s Association. If you remember, Shannyn, at that time even Sarah’s detractors believed her to be honest and squeaky clean, even if they didn’t agree with her politically or philosophically. So that surprised me… how fast she went “dirty.”

Was there a moment, incident, that seemed to be the proverbial final straw for Frank?

Yes, cricket. I do believe that Frank is truly remorseful. I’ve known him pretty closely for almost two years now and you get to know someone in that time. Frank was never a politician, and has no desire for a future political life. He’s a decent guy who believed in someone, and later came to recognize the hazards of putting so much faith in anyone – hence the title.

Can you tell us what Frank Bailey was referring to (pg 367) when he said
“…..planting savage rumors ….Heck. I even helped plot to find a young, attractive woman to embarrass a susceptible sitting lawmaker.”

I just finished the book last night. It certainly confirms the impression many Alaskans have about Sarah’s primary interests and her lack of knowledge about actually governance. I feel sorry for her children first, then for the many who are blindly giving her money. Queen Esther she is not.

That’s a great point! I think many Alaskans blame McCain for Palin going bad. The truth is, she was already there and the book shows it in her own emails.

Hmmm…. I don’t know if anything she could say would talk herself back in to Frank’s heart. I think he’d respect her for the apology and say so, but he’s pretty much seen the error of his ways. He would forgive, but not get back in that world. That’s my best guess.

Hi Shannyn and Jeanne. What does Bailey’s wife think of Sarah Palin now? She obviously wasn’t happy about the amount of time Bailey spent away from his family, so she must be even more annoyed about the way Palin has treated him.

Jeanne,

Great book! How do you think the “leak” of the manuscript affected the outcome? Frank seems to allude that there were a few changes made due to this event, but I don’t really see clearly how it did.

Jeanne,

According to FB, did you have a sense that SP took vengance on those who spoke the truth over those who started only fictitious rumors?

Yes. Frank is very much a conservative Christian and one of the things that drew him to Sarah was her strong pro-life stance. When he saw her throw the organizer of an event supporting that under the bus purely because of political pettiness, his eyes were opened. She was willing to blame others and throw the event under the bus. Frank was an insider in all that and it really shook him. That on top of a host of other things was his “final straw.”

Ooooh my two most favorite Alaskan LADY’S. Nice to see you both here on the lake.
I wonder about the email’s in that the state is putting out the-what’s left of Palins email’s and how they relate to what Mr Bailey had to use for this book?

How do Sarah’s people respond to the Media totally discounting her winning the GOP nomination? Fundies are the majority voters in GOP primaries with Huckabee out unless Michelle runs and splits the vote she should win Iowa, lose New Hampshire, Win South Carolina then clean up on Super Tuesday with the Southern States.
Mitt the supposed front runner lost support when Trump was in the polling and now with no news Rudy I read is beating him Mitt’s support seems as soft as an ice cream cone in august.
Sarah’s support seems rock hard but the Corporate wing of the GOP hates her. If Sarah or Michelle is not President or at least VP will her people think they are getting represented? Will they turn out to vote?

One thing I’m wondering is if people who work with Sarah were asked to sign confidentiality agreements? Was Frank ever asked to sign one? Were people who came later in her (so-called) career asked to sign an agreement? Was Levi ever forced to sign one?

Jeanne – Do you think Palin began her current bus tour because the State emails requested way back when will be released this Friday? Did the emails you had to wade through preparing for the book give you nightmares?

Jeanne, among SP’s ex-staffers, where, in relative terms, do you think Frank sits on the anger and alienation scale?

Who do you think can most get Sarah’s people if she does not run I think its Michelle but after her can any GOPer inspire her people like Sarah does?

Janeen Bailey is no fan of Sarah Palin, that’s for sure. She feels very protective of Frank and sees the stress and heartache that Sarah caused her family. Sarah was also not particularly respectful of Janeen on several occasions. I wish we had more of an opportunity to go into that in the book. It could have been a LOT longer!

What a thankless task to read Palin’s emails.

I never understood her as a phenomenon (find her truly disgusting in every way, including her perky librarian look) until I just read Griftopia by Taibbi, who described her as one of the famous people who is famous for being famous.

Did you find any other reason for her fame?

I have about 100 pages to go in the book. It is a fascinating read but I find myself getting angrier with every new page. Do you think there’s any chance the AK legislature will investigate the Petumenos report and Sarah and Todd’s apparent perjury?

What is Sarah’s message about creating jobs the most important issue to voters right now the Dems and GOP seem very quiet about this and its the biggest issue voters care about.
Anyone who runs and says elect me I will create 5 million good paying jobs will win easy but both sides seem bought off by the rich.

There were several events and emails that were added after the leak. Also, much was taken out in the editing process. The book is a better read, cleaner, and with new information. Also after the leak, we had people come forward to corroborate certain aspects of the book, and add their perspective.

Thank you. I’ll read to fill out the incident in my mind.

Another ? You said ” …how quickly she went dirty”. Do you think she ever intended to be an honest broker politician? Does Frank now? Or did she from the beginning see it as the gravy train and a financial lifestyle?

I think whether claims against Palin were legitimate or not, she sought revenge on those who tarnished her image. She threw under the bus whomever it was convenient to throw under the bus to squash the upset of the day. She was incapable of letting anything go. She doubled down when she should have let things roll off her back.

Jeanne,

I am very interested in your general analysis of SP’s writing.

I think there are plenty in the “under the bus” club. John Bitney said she was a sociopath the first time he broke his silence about her. There are others. Frank doesn’t seem “bitter” to me. More like he wants to pass on lessons learned.

How did Palin “get discovered” by the neocons? Must be a story in that. Couldn’t have been accidental.

What is the basis of Sarah’s emotional appeal what topics do her supporters seem to respond to most?

Me too. It will be interesting to read those and see how much overlap there is. The state is only releasing emails that have an official .gov email address, so all the ones going from Yahoo to Yahoo will not be released. I think that’s wrong, personally. All the emails that deal with state governance should belong to the people.

tarnished her image

Heh. She does a pretty good job of that all by herself.

Great book I couldn’t put it down!!

Im going to ask the question that I’m sure everyone is wondering.

Why didn’t you discuss babygate in the book?

Do you have any plans to work on another book about Palin?

Please describe why people think she is a sociopath.

Hi everyone; Jeanne, thanks for your part in that incredible book. I could not put it down.

No question that the establishment GOP are no fans of Sarah’s. She is not a team player. She likes to frame this as being “rogue” or “mavericky” but she is really just out for herself. That’s dangerous for them and they know it.

I think that she has a core group of supporters that will remain “blindly allegiant” to the end. Is it enough to win her the nomination? Conceivably. Enough for the general? I don’t think so. It’s an interesting battle to watch, though, isn’t it?

John said that because he had worked for her so closely and knew she could excuse anything she did, even when she knew it was wrong. I’m sure other people have different reasons.

No, not to my knowledge. I’m reasonably sure that Frank did not have to sign anything.

It wouldn’t surprise me if that wasn’t happening now, though.

Hi ladies. One thing I keep reading is how people in Alaska both still in the government and outside of it are still afraid to talk about the Palin’s. Seeing as how she probably couldn’t get elected dog catcher in the state, what possible reason is their to fear her now?

Once people hit “Paliban” or “Palinista” status, it’s hard to get them to see the light.

My personal feeling is that the bus tour was in response to this book, and to the emails. She wanted to distract. And she did… but not to her advantage.

Why was so little written about her “pregnancy” with Trig?

Many have pointed out that if Sarah the Palin looked like Rep. Virgiinia Foxx no one would have listened to her for a moment. That just screams to the vacuousness of the public (and the venalness of the Right Wing)…..and should be embarrassing to anyone who supports Palin’s ridiculousness.

Ding Ding Ding! Hey, you guys hide in the church basement from the tornado, and I’ll drive to ruin Mitt’s day…

It’s an interesting battle to watch, though, isn’t it?

Sure if you like scary movies or thought the 12 Caesars was a fun read about good government.

I don’t think Frank harbors anger at Sarah Palin. I think in terms of writing this book and why he did it, it was to come clean and warn others (particularly conservatives) about the person they think she is vs. the person she really is.

On the flip side, I’m sure she’s pretty angry about now.

See “Wet Hen”.

Oh, and your second question. Yes, I actually did have some nightmares during the six months of email reading. :)

Jeanne, I saw the pictures, yes, and that caused me to wonder WHY Bristol? It’s sticky. You can appreciate that. So can you please tell us what discussion was among you three about using the picture of Bristol with Trig?

Unlike virtually any politician I can think of, she inspires projection. Most of us live in a world where ambiguity and nuance cannot be ignored, even when we’d like to. SP is not encumbered in this manner.

Jeanne and Shannon,

Thanks for taking the time to do this Book Salon. I have to run off to a prior commitment, but I’ll come back later and read what I missed.

This is one of the things that I love about the Internet – that I’m here in Virginia and I can read your blogs and learn about Alaska and ask you questions! It’s amazing. And I love Brian the moose!

I agree. Probably Michele Bachmann. And I also agree that as far as whipping up a crowd, there’s nobody that does it like Sarah Palin. I’ve seen it. Pretty amazing.

How could anyone ever have taken Palin seriously. She’s such an obvious airhead. Giving new like to dumb brunette jokes.

Sarah is the best political fluffer the GOP has, even if they don’t like her.

In an Alaskan world of old oily men, she was a ray of sunshine. She was young, a woman, a mother, full of energy and fight. Alaskans loved her. She ousted a sitting Republican governor in the primary leaving him 19%, and getting more than 50% herself in a three-way race.

She wasn’t famous for being famous then. There was some real star power. She reminds me of the old radio show The Shadow – she has the “power to cloud men’s minds.” :)

It just proves to me that there are a lot of sheep out there with wayyyyyyy too much time on their hands and no sense of reason…

Palin’s fans are known to be vicious and relentless in their defense of her. Have you and your co-authors experienced much harassment since the publication of your book?

As I read the book my feelings about Sarah kept going back and forth between anger and sadness. Anger for what she’s done (and continues to do), and sadness that she’s so screwed up. She reminds me very much of someone I once had to deal with – an author who’d plagiarized several other authors, but claimed everyone was just persecuting her. The most amazing lies and distortions came out of her mouth, and she had an incredible ability to redirect the conversation and put everyone on the defensive.

The personality profile and ways of dealing were very similar to what Sarah exhibits. I know psychologists must have a name for this particular personality profile (which seems to include several ‘disorders’) but I don’t know what it is.

I hate SP with a white-hot heat, but I actually don’t think airhead is the best word to describe her. I can’t come up with a single word that embodies directionless ambition devoid of substance however.

In 2006 we had 10% of our legislature indicted for taking oil bribes. Frank Murkowski lost the primary to her, he got 19% of the vote as an incumbent. The perfect storm.

I truly hope so. But I’ve hoped a lot of things. There is plenty to investigate in this book, that’s for sure. I wonder why it hasn’t hit the national radar that Mitt Romney was involved with the illegal coordination of her campaign ads with the RGA. He was running the show at the time.

Nobody but michelle then can get Sarah’s people? I thought as much then one of them has to be on the ticket Sarah’s people make up a big chunk of the 30%ers hard core Bush was right supporters the most energized part of the GOP base without them showing up to the polls Obama could win all 50 states.

Jeanne, perhaps this is an over-whelming personal question but: what keeps bothering me is how someone like SP developed such a undeserving a self concept that could put her in this national arena?

Jeanne, this is great. Do you — or Shannyn — have a sense of whether or not Palin has grown or matured in any substantial way since she was governor. For example, would she still look at something like the silly traffic complaint and decide “This is a good issue for us.” I think I saw that assessment in a couple different places in the book and it made me shake my head.

I bet you did! It’s absolutely frightening how she has gotten away with all of this. After I left Alaska in August of 2008 and moved to Washington State, I just wanted to tell all of the misguided people here who believed her to watch out. Now there are so many more who stand by her regardless of whatever evil she perpetrates. Will she ever be held accountable?

I fume when Sarah takes credit for cleaning up the corruption.

I think you answered your own question. :)

There’s a long way to go before the 2012 election. I think it’s going to be about the economy, and I believe that Sarah’s latest rant last night about how Pelosi “lied” and Obama “lied” has taken a really strong stance, and focused on the fact that she’ll be approaching things from the standpoint of the economy. I can’t remember who she was talking to in that clip… If I remember, I’ll post it.

She talks about how we “need a fighter.” Enter Sarah Baraccuda…

Hi, Jeanne, I’m MinNJ from your site. I believe that Palin has a learning or reading disorder which might account for her frustration and anger, especially at those which are most established. What is your take on that?

Apparently the RGA thought nothing of doing the ads. Is it legal, perhaps, in other states?

I don’t think she’s capable of letting anything go unless it benefits her. She shoots down. She is petty. I don’t see that different now.

Bailey’s appearances promoting the book on conservative venues have been notable for his statements about his colleagues in the project, his projection of their political views, and his plans to use his profits to further his religious beliefs.

On the Dana Loesch radio program, he stated “there is no way you can possibly think this was written by people who are not conservative.” Does that bother you that Bailey is calling you a conservative on right-wing radio?

He also stated that his profits will go to advance his cause of fighting Alaska laws which allow teens raped by their stepfather, for instance, to be able to seek medical attention without having to go through the immediate family. He has also stated he believes strongly in rape victims having to bear the child of their rapist, so one might assume he will support people who support that with his profits. Do you know otherwise? How is he going to use his profits? Perhaps you can convince him to donate to firedoglake?

He has also stated more than once that he has been working on this project for over a year and a half with his “co-authors.” When did you start discussing this project with him or his agent?

Rebecca Mansour, from SarahPAC claimed two weeks ago that Bailey had first approached her about a book on Palin, but that it was to be pro-Palin. Mansour has not presented documentation to back up her assertion. Has Bailey shared his thoughts on Mansour’s claim with you?

Me too. There are bumperstickers that say “Thanks FBI” all over here…not “Thanks Sarah”. There were buttons that said “Where’s Sarah” when she was governor.

I think she started off wanting to feel like a winner. To feel that she’d fought a hard campaign and won. That’s like a drug for her – the winning, or even the chance of winning. Couple that with the fame and fortune, and that’s what rules her beyond anything else.

I think if being an honest reformer (or should I say “appearing” like an honest reformer) serves her purposes, she’ll use it. But it isn’t because of a burning desire for reform, it’s just a vehicle for her.

Rebecca lied. Franks said so on my show the day that came out. You know Jeanne isn’t a right-winger. So does Frank.

The whole situation is highly “interesting” although very troubling on many levels.
It’s interesting she has built this cadre of those willing to do almost anything for her.
I think the people in her shadow, who do all the “work”, could be as an interesting a read.
Any plans on their stories?
Any comments?
One that comes to mind is Rebecca Mansour. Any interesting info about her or any comments?

Any guesses on when Sarah might have crossed over? She used to be soooo sweet and thoughtful and supportive to everyone she met. Did the topic ever come up as to when Sarah crossed over?

Excellent, Jeanne.

I’m not impressed with her writing. There’s an example of a letter to the editor that Sarah wrote herself, singing her own praises, and then had someone else submit. It was better than how she speaks, but pretty forced and unskilled in my opinion.

I think people figured out the sweetness was due to an artificial chemical…like aspartame.

Any chance you would release the emails that you didn’t use in the book?

Thanks for the answer, to which I say OY.

If AK has to resort to finding Palin as a ray of sunshine, I despair for the state.

Also I’m a particular fan of The Shadow, which I listened to in its original on a shared radio in my 2 older brothers’ room. Have to say, I resent the comparison. :-)

BTW, I’m a female. Wouldn’t know how to ‘cloud men’s minds’ if my life depending on it. So you may attribute my Palin comments to jealousy if you wish, though I attribute them to my being a pop culture moron.

There were two tour boats full of neocons that came to Juneau when she was governor. She bedazzled them for sure. One was a bunch from The National Review and another from The Weekly Standard. That’s how she hooked Bill Kristol who became her most ardent media spokesman for a while.

Sarah and Barack are identical in this manner

Do you have any idea why the mainstream media so often gives her a pass when she makes ridiculous statements? Or why they feel a need to report on her every move? It drives me crazy.

Jeanne and Shannyn,

You both have been so heavily ensconced in the history of SP’s career. Did you feel that you learned anything new about SP after participating and/or reading the book?

I don’t think anyone is going to answer me either.

I wasn’t asking you

I was wondering if she has said anything specific about what she would do to create jobs. A statement like that with an actual plan would have popular appeal. Sarah saying she is a fighter is more empty talk that won’t impress voters outside the 30% of her base.
If she keeps giving empty statements on jobs Obama has no worries. I don’t plan on voting for Obama but well why is the entire GOP handing the election to Obama by not saying they will create jobs?
If they keep this up they might as well go home now.
I thought for sure unemployment numbers like this and high gas prices would sink Obama but the GOP even Sarah seems to be taking a dive.

I think her supporters respond to her anger. They are frustrated with taxes, and government, and the economy, and a million other things that we’re all frustrated with. They just don’t peel the onion far back enough to see what the real problems are. She creates a mob mentality. Her followers aren’t tackling the actual issues. They just love her and trust that she’ll do it for them. Recipe for disaster.

I wish the Tea Party would take a long look at corporate influence and stop being angry.

She is so like Bush, Cheney, et al. Either you are with me or you are against me, and if you don’t support me in every possible way it is my duty to destroy you completely. All black or white, little gray. She can’t manage her own children, much less a nation. The support she had when first elected governor has disappeared as her “solutions” fall apart – the gas line, AGIA, is a prime example. I hope Frank Bailey will continue to find joy and will prosper from his brave act of writing this book. Jeanne and Shannyn, thanks for all you do!

Anything specific on creating jobs? Sarah’s still trying to figure out what newspapers she reads… ;-)

He also stated that his profits will go to advance his cause of fighting Alaska laws which allow teens raped by their stepfather, for instance, to be able to seek medical attention without having to go through the immediate family.

Uh what’s Sarah’s stance on these laws that sounds like a great question for the Media and the Corporate GOP who hate her to ask. I am sorry to hear you have laws like that in your state ET.
The Lake should front page an article on this.

From the emails included in the book, it seemed to me that her her vindictive, snarky emails were her most coherant. She seems to crumble when the situation calls for a ‘beginning, middle and an end.’

So much like that happens with most politicians that that one instance is tiny. There are bigger fish to fry in the current WH admin. Just my take. We have imbeciles running the govt. Americans dont care about stuff that happened years ago

Heh. Verrry wise to want what wasn’t published rather than what was…

The book is Frank’s memoir, and goes by his recollections. She told him she was pregnant only minutes before she told the press. I have my own opinions on that issue, but as far as the book goes, this is about Frank’s observations and opinions. His message was about people falling prey to the ideal of the “perfect candidate” and babygate really didn’t factor in to the story in a major way. It wasn’t on his radar much.

Jeanne talked about this on the radio show and is answering as many questions as she can. This thread is zipping by. “Babygate” isn’t an issue in the book because there was information backing the official story.

I know that story. But there must be some backstory. Couldn’t have been that simple.

On edit: Meaning that meeting up on an AK cruise is never an accident. Someone spotted her in advance, put the bug in neocons ears, etc etc. Who was that & how did it happen & why Palin.

Sorry I was thinking logically again…about Sarah and thats a mistake:)

Actually, if I had a critique for Obama it would be that he is OVERLY encumbered by nuance at times.

The book was a great read and very informative!

That’s like asking someone who is post-partum if they’re ready to have another baby! :) (Sorry for the baby reference. Just seemed to fit!)

I wonder if, when you first read the emails, if every single thing was a confirmation of what you’d already suspected, or if there were bits that re-set your previous assumptions — about Todd, the way she really operated while in office, anything.

Wow.

I believe it has to do with lack of empathy, and using people as tools to further your own desires. If they are no longer useful, they get thrown out.

Beg to differ.

Palin is still trying to figure out what a snoozpaper iz.

:-)

let it slide.
some times you get those types.
not even worth commenting on.
and no I have no idea why they wrote what they wrote.

I’m glad you enjoyed it. I’ve heard from many people it’s a “page-turner.” That’s the best compliment to me. You can say anything but if people don’t want to read it, it doesn’t make a difference.

I haven’t had time to read the entire thread. Will Frank release more emails?

How hard is it to get “Outsiders” to understand how bizarre Alaska politics are, and in particular, how bad Gov. Murkowski was? He’s the reason Sarah ever made it as far as she did.

I’m wondering when SP said ‘Statute of Liberty’, would that be a part of her neocon teabagger agenda if, heaven forbid, she ever made it to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue? *shudders*

Alaska is a small town. It doesn’t take much to cause someone incredible discomfort here. There are still those who are loyal to her. She knows about the rumor mill and all the ways people can be sabotaged. She has nothing to lose at this point, but others still do.

It’s really difficult. Governor Parnell is worse than either Frank or Sarah. We should have a pipeline just to ship political crazy here.

Could you elaborate?

Hopefully I answered that question before. This is based on Frank’s recollections, and what was important to him at the time.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

Could you explain:”… [SP] has nothing to lose at this point..”? Could nothing deflate her and make her retreat to regular rich life but little attention?

Captain Kirk read some of Sarah’s writing like a Beat Poet and it made worked no it still made no sense many Beat Poets used lots of speed Sarah is from the meth capital of Alaska Meth I hear is speed or in the same family. Drugs or Crazy is a running debate here when we talk about Sarah.
Sure many pols will say anything to get elected but Sarah seems well confused sometimes Dan Quayle was often confused as was Bush or just dumbfounded but Sarah seems to think any answer is better than no answer and she pushes that test taking strategy to new limits with limited creativity and little reference to the actual question.

Jeanne,

Could you comment on how church membership impacts Alaska politics? Do all the ‘cool kids’ belong to a certain church? Are there rivalries?

Yes, people need to READ it! I saw one review on amazon (can’t remember if it was for your book or Geoffrey Dunn’s) that said “best book I never read.” And then went on to say it was all lies, of course.

There was no discussion I was involved with. We sent a big bunch of pictures and they chose the ones they wanted. *shrug*

I am in the middle of it now. Read Dunne’s book also, but yours was much more enjoyable to read. Love the writing style. Congrats!

Then why doesn’t Frank release all of his emails to a public forum or major press outlet? Doesn’t he see that that would be a public service?

The governor that preceded her was so horrendous that people went around with bumperstickers that said “Anyone but Frank” (Murkowski). They got their wish. And as they say, be careful what you wish for!

Politics in every state (newbie at this level of discussion, so take my comment in that context) are bizarre. Still, that AK should “anoint” Palin seems bizarre.

In my NYS, Cuomo fils is a neocon son of his gov father. I understand (though hate) the transition, as monied interests are now ALL that matters.

AK history seems to be different.

Nothing serious. Of course there are always people that voice their opinions strongly. ;)

Narcissists play out that old motivational phrase – “Think what you could accomplish if you knew you couldn’t fail.” In this case, that’s scary.

To say babygate wasn’t on his radar seems odd. Maybe the wild ride passed over his head, but not Bristol and the rumors that Trig is hers. He shows deep concern for Bristol. He mentions more than once that Bristol gets treated poorly by her mother, he calls her a sweet girl, he talks about her jeans being tight enough that he can say she wasn’t pregnant (in March), he mentions her being in the waiting room the day he saw SP and a baby from a distance, and he says SP could have shown paperwork rather than “prove” the rumors false by outing Bristol. Bristol, her welfare, and her pregnancy or not made it onto his radar many times.

Did Frank say he had any recollection of Sarah being encouraged by inner circle to SHOW THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE?

Dont assume other states arent as bizarre or aren’t more bizarre than AK. Esp states run by mafias and such things. As a country we’ve had one president in cahoots with the mafia and one with saudis

Some like to discount Palin, but the dummies had it about right as far as obummer, for all the wrong reasons, of course…

Of course but the end results, the somehow were right. It may be a mistake to short change the folks for their “folkish” ways, what ever it be, they know politics is full of it, and here they are only showing innate wisdom.

The reason Palin and Backmann too, are doing great, is because they are representative of thousands of POLE DANCERS all over the country, who work hard.

Librarian and mom by day, pole dancin’ deva by night. I want to see the runnoffs between Palin and Backmann. Hope they mud wrestle and have a good cat fight!

The TP’s are in tune with the inner sensibilities, the political lanscape as it is. and after you watch Palin and Brackmann and get hot and bothered, Virginia Fox will come through your hotel door, in a neglajay. Bottoms up!

Got that.

Oy still seems the best response.

Lotsa scab scratching at FDL over O. An analogy perhaps with Palin.

How bad is s/he and how much should we oppose her/him.

And insight from the right which would help inform the left?

I am very relieved to hear that. :-) I was very concerned for you all.

Dont be giving them any damn ideas. They just might try.

I think she’s playing in a bigger sandbox, but her priorities will still be petty on that scale. It also depends on who is “handling” her and how much she will allow herself to be “handled.” I don’t know if it is possible for her to just relax and let things go. She is impatient, she requires immediate gratification, and she must win at all costs – every battle. Ultimately people like that lose the war, I think.

Ha! I bet it does feel that way… Well, perhaps when you’ve had a chance to fully recover then. :-)

I think you insulted pole dancers:)

HA!

Interesting theory, but to be honest I’d not thought of that. She definitely has a mixed up non-linear way of speaking. From all accounts, she did do a fair amount of reading, but mostly AK business stuff, or trivial silly magazines.

dubya

We’re trying! :)

Her war…or the one she puts us in?

Where is Gov Murkowski today? Physically? What is he doing?

I am almost certain that it is illegal in all states. I hate to say that for certain, but let’s say I’m 99.9% certain of that. The fact that they were casual about breaking campaign law (to me) means that they undoubtedly do it all the time.

Oh Jeanne I so hope you are ultimately correct. There is nobody on this planet I’d love to see fall flat on her face more than $i$ter $arah $toopid! ;-)

Was the neocon boat to alaska specifically to see/meet palin?

He lives in Utah.

Thanks for your patience with my picture questions. The publisher probably chose it because Bristol is now a celebrity ( I cringed writing that)>

Why is that scary? I dont understand. Wanting to do good and change things globally is a good thing. Morals in this country are horrible.

I cringed reading it. Hard to cut down on the teenage pregnancy rates when you can get a reality show, book deal, and dance with the stars. Ugh.

Dubya>>>

Directionless: Check
Lack of substance: Check

But as odd as it sounds, in some ways, becoming predident for him was sort of a path of least resistance. I never thought of dubya as ambitious

Frank definitely knows I am not a conservative. This book conveys his thoughts and feelings. If he actually called me a conservative during an interview, I’m sure he’d be the first to say he misspoke. It’s clear in the book where the authors are described where we stand.

It’s none of my business where Frank donates money. It’s only my business where I donate money. :)

The claim by Rebecca Mansour about Frank approaching her to write a book is a complete fabrication. I told Frank she’d said that and he was completely stunned. Totally false.

So did the three authors get in a room, or was it all online? Any juicy disagreements you would like to share with us?

And doing a great job! Thank you. (Why did the image of someone on horseback, riding through the night and shouting, “The Palin’s are coming! The Palin’s are coming?”, come to mind? Got to stop reading Palin news bits!)

Yes, I believe it was about a year and a half ago.

Ain’t Bristol on another reality show with a guy from DWTS? Don’t be surprised if Tripp gets a playmate in a year or so… ;-)

at least she has her bible verses ;) I smile and nod every time I hear Bristol quotes a verse Sarah has sent her.

I think that there are several people who could write interesting books – Meg Stapleton, Ivy Frye, Rebecca Mansour…

I can’t see any of them writing a fluff book about her, though. Not at this point. They see what she is like and I’m guessing that if they have read Blind Allegiance, they recognize “that Sarah” as the one they are working (or have worked) for. What they do with their own stories is up to them.

I’d buy a book by any of them, though!

As a kid, she always had a book with her. No idea when/if that changed.

She wasn’t really focused on that during her governorship, and I’m not aware of anything specific she has said recently. Sorry!

I meant to add, though I hate to admit this. I have a similar thought process as Sarah. I tend to say anything that passes through my mind without thinking about it. Those statements then come out like garbled syntax and peoplelook at me like, whoa, I have no idea what you just said. I dont think it’s a disability. Just a desire and Passion? to talk.

Sweet and thoughtful serves a purpose. I hate to be cynical, but I don’t think she ever “crossed over” really. She is more desperate to hang on to what she has now, but I think she is the same person. Perhaps fame and celebrity have made her bolder, but she’s still the same at the core. I wrote a piece on that not too long ago at The Mudflats.

Hi Jeanne, Hi Shannyn,

Jeanne, have several questions for you re the book, will try to keep it short:

1) Sarah today on FNS with Chris Wallace, when questioned about parts of the book claimed that they are “complete lies” and “unequivocally” stated that Baily has ethics issues of his own and that out of some 25 thousand state employees only Baily alone had to undergo ethics training.

Just wondering how Frank and Ken and yourself really combat the kind of media attention Sarah is getting and how it influences perception of this book?

2) Jeanne, I know you realized that having your name attached to this book would mean many would use your “liberal blogger” status as a way of alluding the book is a hit piece, not true etc. Did you at all consider not having your name attached to make the book gain a wider audience who accepted its facts?

3) What is the status of any investigation into the legality of the use of emails between Frank and Sarah and her staff in this book? Can (and will) Frank release more as time goes by?

Thanks!

It’s not entirely my decision. There are also legal issues involved. My sincere hope is that they are all released.

Thank you!

What was the role of the Attorney General and the Department of Law regarding the publication of this book? Does it concern you that the AG is appointed by the Governor? The clear abuse of power against the citizens of Alaska by Palin seemed chronic in nature. Jeanne, any thoughts on how we can prevent the velvet hammer from being used against critics of the Alaska Governor in the future?

I wish I could tell you, but I really don’t know.

oh yes, she read from the barstool just walking distance from the compound…

Thanks for your reply. I too believe Mansour just made it up out of thin air.

It’s none of my business where Frank donates money

— but those who choose to purchase a product might not want some of the money to go to support anti-gay, anti-choice foundations or donation caches such as Bailey is describing he is doing with his profits from the sales. Are you suggesting fdl readers should “put all that behind us” and “move on”?

My radio just replayed Sarah screeching at the motorcycle gathering about how she just loved the smell of the emissions from the hogs. That 30% of America thinks this woman has any value is just astonishing to me. Poor little Piper hauled along to these sham events….tugging on her mama’s shirt, begging to be done with it. How can anyone fall for this stange lady???

taking oxy now?

x2

I was surprised by the forcefulness of her, and how unable she was to seemingly control her emotions. There were lots of “NOW!” and “PERIOD!” endings to emails. She seemed unable to see the bigger picture and simply reacted to the situation of the moment in the most severe emotional terms possible. That surprised me.

And I was glad to see confirmation of some things I’d already suspected. I felt surprised at the time when I read them, even though I already suspected. Troopergate and the unbelievable degree of Todd’s obsession did surprise me, I have to say.

and what we, you, choose to do with money is none of her or my business too.

Mine was of a headless horseman, but she’s so eerie that it seems appropriate…
s

The only way this ‘past history’ wouldn’t count is if you are suggesting that someone with a documented history of unethical behavior, deceit and political malfeasance is the appropriate choice to fix what you consider to be current problems in the WH. I hope you can see the failure of logic in that argument. Palin wants to be a leader in some capacity. That means her past experience, actions and behaviors are absolutely relevant, no matter how ‘small fish’ you choose to view them.

Her gamesmanship over the nomination thing is a perfect example of her sociopathy, btw. Doesn’t matter who she inconveniences or deceives or how much money she cons supporters out of contributing to her potential campaign so long as there is some material gain for herself in it. Ditto the ‘wild ride’ bus tour where she is actually willing to put people (and the journalists she loves to hate are, in fact, actual people) in physical jeopardy to play her ‘Where’s Sarah–Look at Me!’ game. Why do you guys put up with/support her nonsense?)

I hope we conveyed that in the book. It’s important not to get so angry or disillusioned that you say “Anyone but _______” because even if you say “Anyone but Palin!” you may not like what you get. It’s important to actually vet people based on who they are, not just cling to them for who they are not.

But one has to draw a line between petty and brilliant move. I think there are some justified opinions of Frank’s book that say he’s petty and disloyal. Just imagine if bigger leaders didn’t make their aides and people sign conf agreements. CHAOS

Troopergate for one, and issues of perjury. The role of Alaska Legislators in the RGA issue. The role of Mitt Romney and Roy Blunt in the RGA incident. That would keep people busy for a while.

ET@190: I absolutely agree with you that potential book purchasers can make wiser decisions if they know the author(s) intend to spend proceeds on anti-gay, anti-choice activities. Thank you for pointing this out.

That is why some people won’t purchase the book. Some are morally opposed to supporting Bailey’s agenda. Not everyone just jumps on all these “book bandwagons” you know.

I meant that she has nothing to lose in Alaska, where people are still afraid to talk about her.

And no, nothing will make her retire in obscurity to live a peaceful life off the millions she’s made. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news… ;)

off topic but this crowd may be interested. trending at the top of memeorandum right now: palin fans are trying to revise the Paul Revere Wikipedia page. (by saying “accounts differ” like the climate deniers)

LIBRARIES

Hi Jeanne.

My question has to do with the lack of press regarding the ethics complaints that Palin was found guilty of, including the one in which she was required to pay back many hundreds of thousands of dollars to donors to her AFT. Any word on how that went down in the end? Any word on if she paid? It bothers me that she seems to be so slippery when it comes to the law.

Also, anything on whether or not Todd ever had any repercussions on his conviction with regard to Troopergate?

And btw, excellent work!

Yes, there are several “churches of influence” where politicians are members. I hesitate to say more than that because it’s really not anything I can speak on intelligently and I don’t want to get my facts or assumptions wrong.

This should be investigated because of the campaign finance violation, but also calls attention to current events. Mitt Romney’s campaign rollout got stomped by Sarah in NH. This seems the most recent case of Sarah biting the hand that fed her. I wonder what he did or said?

Aint that why we have library’s

.

Ha! “I haven’t read it and it’s all lies!” Love it. I wonder how people who say that it’s all lies explain the fact that the emails are in her own words? I think when people have that attitude, they simply prove why we used the title we did.

And anyone who would like to leave a review on Amazon, it would be appreciated. :)

I miss your point…sounds like the guy gave blood, sweat, and tears to help this woman, and discovered he had been lied to and “had”….what loyalty is expected there is there was no conf. agreement? If the portrayal is accurate, he had already given all he had to give, and then been shafted, if I read correctly.

Flabbergasts me such ego…thanks, again…for all the moose, beauty and circle of friends it must be difficult to be in Alaska…thanks too for our insights from mudflats

I actually think Sarah’s main goal is to stay relevant and get people on their feet. Most of the country is still asleep, though since 2008, a good number have woken to the insanity that is the current state of affairs in DC.

Thank you, Jeanne and Shannyn; both of you have shown courage in the face of your culture in Alaska many times. You both have made the community that is Alaska not be part of the Outside, but be an intergral part of Inside. We need you and love you in very many ways. Namaste.

There are some people who NEED to read this book who agree with Frank’s positions. If they read it and have their eyes opened on the subject of Palin, I think that it’s great. If people don’t buy it because of Frank’s views, that’s entirely their choice. There are Palin books I won’t buy because I don’t agree with how the author operates. Choices are good. (Not that you asked me, ET)

And thank you.

I realize Jeannie has been quite busy with the book, the tour and other affairs, but if she doesn’t think it is important that her colleague’s profits are advancing an agenda that hurts Alaska liberals and progressives, when there is so much stacked up against us here already, I find myself at a loss for words.

The emails being released by the state have all gone through a process of redaction for reasons of “executive privilege” or “deliberative process”. Doing a dump of raw emails may not be an option. The ones that have been released by MSNBC and others are not the emails in their entirety.

Jeanne, Do you know if Frank has met with Trooper Wooten and offered him an apology? Do you think Frank realizes that Sarah and Todd may have lied about the extent of Wooten’s ‘badness’ and even may have projected their own stuff on him? (Apologies if this is addressed in the last 100 pages.) I can’t get it out of my head that the effort to destroy Wooten was simply based on paranoia or revenge for what Sarah felt was undeserved criticism.

What a lively Book Salon! Thanks Jeanne and Shannyn for trying to keep up with us. I wish Sarah Palin would fade away, but since she seems unlikely to do that, it’s important to get all the information about her that we can get.

No, there was never a mention of that.

:(

I don’t know.

How much did you NOT write about Palin’s family in the book?

I met a family that fled Alaska for Oregon and they had ties to the indigenous community. It was clear that they thought they could not live with the toxic social atmosphere plus the people-created environmental degradation (e.g. villages sinking due to no more permafrost).

I think her idea of “wanting to do good and change things globally” is what is scary, to use your words. There aren’t many benevolent narcissists.

Yes! And “Blind Allegiance” was the perfect title.

“I’ve made up my mind; don’t confuse me with the facts.”

“I find myself at a loss for words.” Apparently not.

been there, done that… :)

Great Q, Shannyn! :-))

Thank you Jean and thank you Shannyn. Has anyone checked the twitters yet?

well said

It was all online. Frank and I live near each other so he and I were able to connect for interviews, discussions, etc. Ken Morris is in California. I am looking forward to when we can meet in person. He feels like a dear friend I’ve never been able to raise a glass with. Hoping to change that soon.

I can’t imagine how many hours of phone time, and how many emails back and forth we must have sent!

We have many who are classified as “Climate refugees”. Strange how so many of our lawmakers are still denying climate change.

I Wasn’t attacked Frank. Sorry I didn’t clarify. It sounds like people want to personally burn Sarah. That’s not moral at all and makes those parties look immature. What Frank did wasnt burning her, he highlighted a part of his life that he regrets, while uncovering another side to a powerful woman.

Oh, and no juicy disagreements. There were only a couple things that we disagreed about how to put forward. We went back and forth on a couple things, but nothing too important. Frank was always the final word, since it is his story.

Chris Wallace sez Palin iz a serious prez contender.

How does Frank hurt progressives? Are you one of THOSE people who think teens should be allowed to get abortions without parental consent? Ugh

Wonder if he was on the cruise with Kristol? ;)

All I can figure is that such law makers think that they aren’t and won’t be personally affected besides being paid by their transnational corporate owners to deny reality.

depends on the kind of parent the young girl has and the depth of understanding and caring relationship in and for the girl’s individuality- but you didn’t ask me

Looking forward to a great read. I, too, had trepidations about spending my money where any of it would go to someone with Frank Bailey’s politics, but have to support Jeanne’s efforts! Great book salon. Thanks, Jeanne and Shannyn.

You really should take anything Chris Wallace says with a grain of salt. REALLY.

And you, one of THOSE people who thinks a young girl should carry the child of her rapist? Surely not.

I think it’s funny that Sarah talks about Frank having to undergo ethics training. First, he acknowledges that he didn’t realize what he’d done was wrong, but owned it afterwards. Sarah Palin was found guilty of ethics violations while in office, denied it actually happened to the media (!), made an end run to try to deflect it, and refuses to acknowledge her own bad behavior. And oh yes, she was an elected official (who is ultimately responsible for hiring people and giving them the tools to know what they are doing.)

Google “Papa Pilgrim” and “Alaska”. No, not those parents.

eCAHN@238……my concern is that Palin could be that proverbial “slip through’….when the “party” can’t get it’s damnable act together and all of a sudden it’s Palin! Kind of like how she got the VP nod with no proper vetting. And the woman is narcissisitic at best (as are all apparent candidates, I guess) and borderline personality disorder perhaps. I’m hoping the POTB are paying attention……but they are so corrupt that they might like to see her spin in the wind for a while.

A grain? More like a handful.

As we come to the end of this lively Book Salon,

Jeanne, Thank you for stopping by the Lake and discussing your new book and Sarah Palin.

Shannyn, Thank you very much for Hosting this great Book Salon.

Everyone, if you would like more information:

Jeanne’s website and book

Shannyn’s website

Thanks all,
Have a great week!

Just quick reminder:
Membership drive! Are you an FDL member? If not, please join and help keep FDL delivering kick ass activism and independent journalism. You can join HERE.

Todd and her aids were held in contempt of the Senate. Have you seen my husband?!

I can imagine a circle jerk.

Sorry to be so graphic in response to you, Reverend, but its all I can imagine happened on that boat.

And plus, also, too……the Big O is doing the business of the POTB, so he’s probably going to get the nod anyway, and wouldn’t it be nice to see Sarah in some more ‘fuck me’ shoes. Dontcha know?

Yes. Blind Allegiance needs to be read by far right Christians. It’s the only one of the Palin critiques that has a chance of reaching them. It’s the only I could give my mother that she wouldn’t throw in my face. I guess I’ll have to donate to Planned Parenthood or other progressive organization to offset my book purchases and counter Frank’s contributions.

Sorry to “reply” to my own post, but does anyone know what this is about?

Thanks Jeanne and Shannyn for this live feed! It has been both interesting and informative!!

Especially if the rapist happens to be her OWN FATHER…

Bev and Jeanne! Thank you for a fun 2 hours. Now, back to the hoarders episode that is my back room.

But I was happy to see Wallace challenge Palin a little bit in this morning’s interview. I think it was in reply to her response about stepping on Romney’s toes: she said she didn’t want to step on toes; he said something like “Some people think you LIKE to step on toes.”

Are you and Ken in agreement on what’s the real deal behind babygate? Is Frank still in the Sarah had Trig camp?

You don’t understand the rural incest issue that is present in Alaska. The last thing a teen girl needs to do is ask her father for permission to abort a pregnancy that he caused. There is a root problem here and you obviously do not reside here or you’d know.

I had considered not having my name on the book, but Frank and Ken were insistent on it. I have actually gotten some grief from fellow progressives for it as well. Ultimately, I believe that having all sides of the political spectrum working on this is a good thing. It shows that everyone is in agreement about her incompetence.

It also shows that if we have certain benchmarks that we insist upon for our political leaders, it’s possible for the left and the right to have points of agreement that supersede some of our other problems.

I want a fairly-elected, honest candidate of integrity. I don’t want a Palin Democrat either.

How had Palin got away with her hypocritical “family values” pronouncements.
As many have known, both Palin (and het mother before her , as well as her daughter later) were knocked up prior to marriage, yet until lately eg Dunn’s book, she’s been allowed to get away with the “we eloped to save my parents money” story- while preaching abstinence for everyone else.

As a confidante and friend, didn’t Bailey know about this, and if so why did he put up with lies if this nature?

The emails we used went through a legal review by the state, so I don’t anticipate any trouble there at all.

Linking does not imply endorsement. Perhaps I should have included a snark tag, but didn’t think that necessary.

Thanks. I appreciate all responses.

better said than my reply, thanks

Yes, thanks Jeanne and Shannyn. Keep up the good work. Shannyn, always appreciated your posts on Juneau Empire before they pulled the plug on commentaries after news items.

fyi I am the result of rape.

Thank you Shannyn, Jeanne and FDL!

Very fun and good info. Already bought and read the book, very readable, will take the suggestion and post a review. Thanks for your blog, too, Jeanne, it’s a daily habit.

Jeanne Thanks for a great book

here, here

See my previous answer regarding the emails. The DoL asked us to remove certain sections of emails which we did. It concerns me that the AG is appointed by the governor. But it would also concern me if the AG were elected because then we’d have to ask ourselves who was funding that? Who is able to buy that election?

Until we have “Clean Election” law, we will be in trouble no matter what.

No big surprise there. How’s that working out for you?

It’s 3:00 and I’m typing as fast as I can but there are so many unanswered questions. I’ll cherry pick a couple, but not sure if we’ll get cut off or not. So, if we do, thank you all for coming on and bringing such great questions for me.

It’s been a blast.

Shannyn Moore for secretary of state.

That must have been hard to share. Thank you for your honesty.

Oops! Just now saw Bev’s message. So, I guess we’re out of here. Thank you all so much, and thanks to Firedoglake and Shannyn Moore.

Take care and enjoy the book!

It’s a sticky subject. It’s just unheard of to me to imagine a 14 yr old walking into a clinic and having an abortion by herself. The repercussions mentally could destroy her.

Thank you Jeanne, Shannyn and FDL!

Jeanne – the comments stay open for 24 hours.
Thanks again

You have fun trying to find one. Because no one like that exists in this country, esp out of those willing to assume power of any kind.

I bought the book and hope that eventually Frank will see that his equally blind allegiance to his religion’s teachings are no more based on fact or reason than Palin’s spiel about her desire to “progress” Alaska. It is pretty hard to supplant years of belief with reason. Breaking a habit seems to take about as long as it did to form that habit. Longer, if that belief was instilled during early childhood.

Getting pregnant before marriage has little to do with family values. Even the most moral and righteous do it, or they marry at 17 so they can.

Fine. Thanks for being a douche.

Isn’t the DoL review kind of a validation that the book is not a pack of lies? If the emails were all fabricated wouldn’t they have pointed that out?

Sarah can whip up a crowd of Tea Party people, but it didn’t work too well in Madison, Wisconsin, where demonstrators made all kinds of noise.

It seems a good way to confront Sarah would be to remind her of past associations, which include her and Todd’s support for the Alaskan Independence Movement. From what I understand she wrote some sort of speech for them and thanked them in some manner, and Todd was a member.

Of course, she’s hypocrite No. 1 by showboating the Constitution and a “One Nation” slogan on her bus, while having supported the Alaskan Independence Party at one time, and never coming clean about it, or even acknowledging that the A.I.P. wanted to secede from the U.S.

She shouldn’t be with herself…if her choice is made and if not supported by a parent…there are others to turn to or inner strength emerges with hope and future would that all women have hope, future and comfort

I live my life with nothing to hide. Thanks all. This has been fun and informative.

I have the same hope for him. It’s one thing for him or anyone to hold certain beliefs; it’s another to attempt to force it on others through legislation. The Bible doesn’t even take an anti-choice stance but it has worked well for Republican politics.

And they should also ask her about her ‘witch doctor’ Pastor Muthee…

I wish you all the best, but please don’t use your own individual circumstances to take away other peoples rights over their own bodies, mental and physical health and reproductive destinies.

That is my hope for Frank and other Fundies also. I would suspect he is struggling internally with his belief systems as we speak. Writing the book has to have forced him to look at that parallel…blind allegiance to a person and blind allegiance to a god, to a religion, to a belief system that punishes and hurts young women and girls.

Wisconsin was a contrast I was thinking also…a community without the opportunist showboater… a community expanding and embracing an ever-widening circle. Does America proud.

And sorry to anyone whose questions I missed, or didn’t have time for.

thanks, read you at mudflats

I sympathize with your hope re Bailey’s blind faith in being a Christianist. I haven’t seen any indications in the interviews and articles about him that he is about to give up any aspect of fundamentalist doctrine.

Thank you. Good reply.

I consider that a person’s religious beliefs are their own business unless those beliefs compel them to do something to interfere with my beliefs and freedoms.

Thanks for this important point. All I know of this book is from this thread, but I would hazard that if it stirs any of ‘the faithful’ to slide the blinders a bit more to the side if will be very worthwhile.

Later folks, signing off…

Hey! I may be late in this discussion, but (1) I thought the book could’ve used better editing and (2) had I known where Frank’s proceeds were going, I never would have bought the book – I am ashamed of you, Jeanne.

A lot of Dems and independents consider themselves Xtians. Some of the anti-choice crowd agrees with us about other issues, such as torture.

I’m not here to defend the worst excesses of Xtianity/theism, but let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater. The truth about SP wasn’t going to come from anyone other than a fundy.

Matthew 25

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, [6] you did it to me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

David Iglesias is a fundy, but he broke the truth about Bush’s DOJ in “In Justice.”

Can you back that up?

Did your Mom ever file charges?

Was it reported in the news?

Did your Dad do any time?

Good point, ET, but since it took him four years to get wise to Sarah, it will take longer to reject his Christianist beliefs since he has so much more invested in them. He went to England to a Christian fundamentalist college and to Moody’s Bible Institute in Chicago. Some people just never feel comfortable without a rigid framework to fit into. Sad.